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Author Topic: Fun with missile spam  (Read 14925 times)

sotanaht

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Fun with missile spam
« on: April 30, 2015, 01:34:59 PM »

Just having some fun with the multitude of faction mods and wanted to show off what some of the added LRMs can do.  This is 3 Monoliths (Citadel) equipped with Heavy Ballista Launchers (Intersteller Imperium) and
Kestros MIRV pods (Exegency).  Testing against a Templar Archbishop (using a Martyr as a glorified camera ship).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyJKIDRQrLM

There is no overkill.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 02:39:14 PM »

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

doofball13

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 03:51:38 PM »

Yeah, the moment I realized missile spam was a problem was when I was able to defeat the Citadel with just two Diable Avionics Hayles spamming BRDY Scalaron Pulse Launchers.

Having all those small universal slots seems broken, and the Scalaron Pulse Launcher doing so much damage to armor/shields along with EMP and regenerating ammo also seems OP.

If only the AI would outfit their fleets with missile-spam tactics... Then I might actually have a reason to use a Large weapon slot on something like a Guardian PD system. Right now those seem like such a waste for the player.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 03:58:00 PM »

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.
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miro

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 04:17:53 PM »

Templar ships are scary. That thing held out for a long time considering how beset it was. It would be interesting to test this missile barrage against a ship loaded up with flak cannons or something similar. Would it go the same way?
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Zudgemud

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 04:31:29 PM »

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.

A vanilla vigilance fleet packed with pilums will do the same, massed missiles scale exponentially, but at least most missiles run out of fuel or ammo quickly, lrm missiles do not.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 04:50:53 PM »

A vanilla vigilance fleet packed with pilums will do the same, massed missiles scale exponentially, but at least most missiles run out of fuel or ammo quickly, lrm missiles do not.

This is it exactly, pure simple logic, tried and tested many times. It matters not the specific special mechanics an LRM has if any... Massed LRMs are hilariously broken.

Cycerin

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 05:21:55 PM »

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.

LRMS different engine color = universal gameplay concept does not transfer
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Doom101

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 05:53:33 PM »

All that i got out of this video is that my versions of mods are woefully outdated O.o i suppose that happens when you go away for awhile.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 06:44:18 PM »

A vanilla vigilance fleet packed with pilums will do the same, massed missiles scale exponentially, but at least most missiles run out of fuel or ammo quickly, lrm missiles do not.

This is it exactly, pure simple logic, tried and tested many times. It matters not the specific special mechanics an LRM has if any... Massed LRMs are hilariously broken.

Having played extensively with a Pilum based fleet, I think you're wrong. Pilums are strong, perhaps too strong, but they are not "hilariously broken".

In vanilla, an equal sized, normal fleet can fight a Pilum-based fleet; a bit of flak and it easily has the upper hand. The three double flaks of an AI Elite Onslaught can hold off the Pilum launchers of 6 Vigilances or 2 Dominators (the most you can get with the same deployment cost as an Onslaught [actually 28 vs. 30]) pretty much indefinitely. An AI Elite Paragon can shield tank them with ease as well (although it's not as good at it as it could be).

Take a pair of AI Support Dominators against each other and see how their two single flaks are easily able to hold off all the Pilums they can throw at each other. The one or two that might get through are easily stopped on their shields.

(Actually I'm playing with Zibywan's Pilums, which are harder to intercept than current vanilla ones.)


The reason Pilums seems so ridiculously strong in normal play is because players avoid even fights. To paraphrase what someone said about my fleet: when you're throwing that many ships around, it doesn't really matter what you're using.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 07:14:29 PM »

A fleet that's smaller than you shouldn't be able to kill you with missiles alone.

However, it's such a lame, cheap way to win.  Even massed beams is more interesting.
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sotanaht

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 07:27:28 PM »

Vanilla Pillums actually wouldn't get the same result.  Even Ballista's alone from most ships wouldn't.  A HUGE amount of the damage is coming from the exigency MIRVs which overwhelm basically any attempt at point defense even the templar's explosions, and a homogenized weapon layout tends to reach the enemy in discreet volleys, which the templar in particular can take out all at once.

The Monolith's turret locations help to interweave volleys because half the missiles are aimed BEHIND them, plus the positioning of the three ships spreads the missiles out even more.

Besides, it's one of the few ways you can actually use AI ships to even help fight templars at all.  Any AI ship that gets within 2000 units of a paladin is essentially lost, and fighter wings die in droves to the explosion spam.

Anyway, I didn't make this thread to complain.  I know some of the mods here are a bit overpowered, but I'm just having fun with it anyway.  I'm also impressed that I can handle so many missiles (including submunitions) all tracking at once without a single frame drop.  I WAS able to tank my FPS by using a fleet full of junk pirate Hammers all equipped with the exigency MIRV, which was something like 6000 submunitions per volley in rapid fire with fast missile racks, but it was still holding over 30fps.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 07:30:35 PM by sotanaht »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 07:31:51 PM »

How many launchers of each type were being fielded by a single Monolith?

Edit for your edit: If you think something is overpowered please communicate that to the pertinent mod authors, unless you are one of two mods that exist the level of useful feed back forwarded to folks is virtually null. Heh, and in the past those types of Exi missiles both out of the MIRV and the direct fired versions were a lot more expensive. A lot of attention was paid to optimizing them as much as possible, the only way to get more speed out of them is to disable the engine visuals entirely.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 07:37:41 PM by MesoTroniK »
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Sleepyfish

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 09:49:15 PM »

Hey, just popping in...

3 Monoliths? That's quite a logistics footprint you would have there. The Monolith does have a multitude of universal mounts, but its otherwise unimpressive combat stats really put a handicap on its overall battle performance. I doubt I'll change the Monolith until I can think of a better ship role. (It will likely be the go-to ship for those who prefer a logistical/industry bonuses over combat)

As for your main claim, inter-mod shenanigans are to be expected. I don't know what I should do about this problem, since the main gimmick is how bad-ass Kestros MIRV pods can be.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Fun with missile spam
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2015, 01:05:46 AM »

well, a more normal fleet setup would be equaly scary.

Spoiler

These are all fitted with  medium/small tornado hornet launchers, except for the BB that has 8! clarents, any and all fleets die within 3 minutes of me deploying this, and since its SS+, some of those fleets had heavy PD cover in their mixed variants, didn't matter.





[close]
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