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[sotanaht]

How many launchers of each type were being fielded by a single Monolith?

Edit for your edit: If you think something is overpowered please communicate that to the pertinent mod authors, unless you are one of two mods that exist the level of useful feed back forwarded to folks is virtually null. Heh, and in the past those types of Exi missiles both out of the MIRV and the direct fired versions were a lot more expensive. A lot of attention was paid to optimizing them as much as possible, the only way to get more speed out of them is to disable the engine visuals entirely.

All the slots.  Monolith has 3 large slots and 7 mediums, so that's 7 kestros mirvs and 3 heavy ballistas each.

Hey, just popping in...

3 Monoliths? That's quite a logistics footprint you would have there. The Monolith does have a multitude of universal mounts, but its otherwise unimpressive combat stats really put a handicap on its overall battle performance. I doubt I'll change the Monolith until I can think of a better ship role. (It will likely be the go-to ship for those who prefer a logistical/industry bonuses over combat)

As for your main claim, inter-mod shenanigans are to be expected. I don't know what I should do about this problem, since the main gimmick is how bad-ass Kestros MIRV pods can be.

I only used 3 monoliths for the video because I could.  I had them available and the simulation allowed it.  I've actually be using 2 in my campaign against the Templar.  They and my marines suck all my logistics capacity forcing me to carry a huge number of elite crew just to stay positive BUT they are great at supporting a solo player ship from afar, which I feel like is about the only way to actually battle templars without turning every fight into a Pyrrhic victory.

When used in a fleet setting, the missiles are a bit less likely to obliterate everything.  Not that they aren't powerful, but they like to chase after martyrs they can't catch or spread themselves too thin on multiple targets.  It's the perfect support fire but not as likely to autowin as you might think.

[DatonKallandor]

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.

LRMS different engine color = universal gameplay concept does not transfer

LRMS different mount sizes, different stats and launched from different ships = vanilla balance does not transfer. Nothing universal about it when pretty much all the numbers that can be different are.

[xenoargh]

This is it exactly, pure simple logic, tried and tested many times. It matters not the specific special mechanics an LRM has if any... Massed LRMs are hilariously broken.

No, it demonstrates that PD is not well-balanced vs. LRMs and Macross spam, in general, because most PD for SS mods and Vanilla were balanced for a world of very finite, bursty missile spam. 

This is why Exigency was generally very broken vs. Vanilla the last time I looked at it, balance-wise (which was like a year ago, so it doesn't reflect on current balance, mind ye).

Now that that is not necessarily the case, PD in SS should reflect that fact of life, but it generally doesn't.

To put it another way, none of those ships being targeted were using PD that was remotely efficient against those tactics; AOE PD really comes into its own vs. missile spam. 

Burst-fire beams should indeed have a serious problem with spam, as they're one-target weapon; they have a definite saturation point, but should be balanced so that they're superior vs. individual high-power missiles.

[Cycerin]

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.

LRMS different engine color = universal gameplay concept does not transfer

LRMS different mount sizes, different stats and launched from different ships = vanilla balance does not transfer. Nothing universal about it when pretty much all the numbers that can be different are.

Numbers aren't what's universal about it, the design is. Only the vague outline of an LRM-type missile + having lots of it is what's needed to create a broken LRM fleet.

[orost]

Honestly, I think the game could be better off without LRMs. A completely fire-and-forget weapon isn't too interesting to use nor to defend against and I've never had much fun with any of them. They feel like they're trying to fill a niche that doesn't actually need filling.

[Pushover]

I think heavy LRM spam should not be doable. I don't like how Pilums generate a carpet of missiles.

However, I'd be fine with non-regenerating high damage LRMs. Something like a pair of Reapers mounted on a fast LRM (for a large slot) makes the tradeoff of range and speed vs significantly more ammo. It makes a ship able to support another with some nasty strike weapon, but is very ammo limited.

In Ironclads, I'm more okay with the ISA LRM spam since solutions are simple enough in that mod. Area PD works, fortress shields work, and Flares + a little AoE PD work.

[xenoargh]

Honestly, I think the game could be better off without LRMs. A completely fire-and-forget weapon isn't too interesting to use nor to defend against and I've never had much fun with any of them. They feel like they're trying to fill a niche that doesn't actually need filling.

They're pressure weapons; they force combatants to engage and to be equipped appropriately or die.  If their AIs were a little brighter, they'd also be prime fighter-killers.

A fleet equipped with decent PD is effectively immune to missile swarms.  A lone-wolf attack ship is pretty vulnerable to them, if it's not fast enough to avoid them entirely.

They're like anything else that's paper, rock or scissors in a game like this; they're great if they don't have a reasonably-cheap counter.  That's how they should work, frankly- efficient against some things, a total waste of OP vs. others, same with the available counters.

It's really not hard to fix this up so that it's reasonably balanced; gentle adjustments to PD mechanics are all that's necessary.  Nerfing missiles or taking out LRMs just loses flavor.

[Dark.Revenant]

DatonKallandor's reasoning is flawed, but his conclusion is correct: mods are severely imbalanced.

The existence of small-slot LRMS and ships with too many (medium/large) missile slots causes major issues.  Did you know that only four vanilla ships have medium missile slots in the frigate or destroyer size?  And that none of them have more than 1 medium missile slot?  Mods add ships (typically destroyers) with way more than that, like the SS+ Archer (3), the II Centurion (4), the Diable Hayle (3), the Scy Orthus (4), etc.  And some mods, like Citadel and II, have small slot LRMs.  All of these ships and weapons should be changed or removed.

[DatonKallandor]

Overkill never fails™

Anyways this video more or less highlights the issues with LRM spam as the outcome would have been the same even with Pilums.

Taking this video as proof of anything is a bit rich. It's several mods working together in an uneven fight. You can draw no conclusions whatsoever relating to vanilla balance from that.

LRMS different engine color = universal gameplay concept does not transfer

LRMS different mount sizes, different stats and launched from different ships = vanilla balance does not transfer. Nothing universal about it when pretty much all the numbers that can be different are.

Numbers aren't what's universal about it, the design is. Only the vague outline of an LRM-type missile + having lots of it is what's needed to create a broken LRM fleet.

It doesn't work in Vanilla, because there's not enough mounts and the only LRM is slow as hell. AoE PD counters mass pilum, and "mass" pilum is far less numerous than mod LRM spam from mod ships.

[Tartiflette]

It doesn't work in Vanilla, because there's not enough mounts and the only LRM is slow as hell. AoE PD counters mass pilum, and "mass" pilum is far less numerous than mod LRM spam from mod ships.

Actually a fleet of Vigilances+pilums+ECCM can do that quite alright, even more so with Missiles specialization. Fast missile racks reload faster that a pilum launcher and can emulate almost one-and-a-half additional missile mount.
I won't deny the issue is worse when combining mods, but the core of the problem is in the mechanic of LRM missiles.

[ValkyriaL]

since fast missile racks instantly reload all missiles, its the system that needs change, not just the missile.

[Megas]

Venture and Doom can pump out a small carpet of Pilums single-handedly, thanks to Fast Missile Racks.  Fast Missile Racks used to be limited only by flux, but was recently changed to three charges.  Slowing fire rate of missiles does little good on slowing those ships, although it could weaken ships without FMR but can mount several like Dominator, Onslaught, and Odyssey.

Also, player with high Logistics can use Vigilance hordes (of at least ten) and saturate the whole space with Pilums.  Character with 100 Logistics can support a fleet consisting a little over forty frigates.

[Tartiflette]

The way current vanilla StarSector is balanced, I think the problem is that a weapon like the Pilum can have multiple volleys on the battlefield at once.  When multiple Vigilances or whatever fire constantly while slowly moving towards the target it creates an unstoppable cloud of missiles.

Actually we discussed about that between modders. The solution I proposed was to have all LRM "remote controlled": Each slot could have only one volley in flight at a time, and only once all of them has hit or been destroyed a new volley could be launched. The opposite of the fire-and-forget harpoons and salamanders, but maybe they could make up for that by increased flare resistance? The main issue was to give a proper feedback to the player.

[Toxcity]

I could see this doing more harm than good,considering that if a single missile from the volley was left, it could just drift around not hitting anything and limit LRM support.

[Megas]

I do not see mass Pilums that much of a problem.  If you have enough ships that can pump out lots of LRMs, you can get enough ships that can overwhelm and blast the enemy to death with more conventional weapons.

Most smaller PD could be improved.  Small energy PD is only useful if you can get multiple beams on a target.  Machine guns are mostly a flux-efficient shield-breaker, not an reliable PD option.  It would be nice if energy had a medium weapon comparable to dual flak.  A single heavy burst laser cannot compete with flak, though three or more might.

The only problem with Pilums is they regenerate (and have many more shots than Harpoons) but most other missiles do not.  Pilums are often the best choice in medium mounts.