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Author Topic: Transponder  (Read 27649 times)

Alex

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Transponder
« on: April 30, 2015, 11:07:44 AM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 11:12:36 AM by Alex »
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Gothars

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 11:42:44 AM »

If you pull it off, that mechanic should be pretty amazing. It seems to approach the level of sophistication where detailed explanations to the player become unnecessary, because he can just do what seems logical/expect the AI to do so.


Will inspection with the transponder on still take time?
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ciago92

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 11:56:01 AM »

I foresee "who still knows who you are" being tricky but otherwise I love it!
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icepick37

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 11:57:52 AM »

Sounds fun.

I like the open question of "Who are you?" "Uuuuuuuuh..." "Oh it's THIS guy."

I mean you DID comply...  buuuut they are still going to hate you, haha. Maybe some randomness there? Super small boost to rep up to a certain level or something? I really don't know how you'd handle that. Another possibility being they'd rage engage you. Ragegage. Or something.

EDIT: What happens if you rapidly engage and disengage the transponder near someone?  ::troll::
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 11:59:30 AM by icepick37 »
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Alex

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 12:02:03 PM »

If you pull it off, that mechanic should be pretty amazing. It seems to approach the level of sophistication where detailed explanations to the player become unnecessary, because he can just do what seems logical/expect the AI to do so.

It'd be really nice if it worked out that way :)

Will inspection with the transponder on still take time?

No. I'm also thinking of removing that aspect from the customs inspection, it doesn't serve a useful purpose. I think it was more of a test case for the "wait" mechanic than something useful. Unlike the comm sniffer installation - where it taking time and you getting caught during it actually matters - this is more superfluous and complicates things without a payoff. Even the comm sniffer one could arguably be simplified... something I need to think about a bit more, design-wise.

I foresee "who still knows who you are" being tricky but otherwise I love it!

It is, yeah. Right now it's "saw you with the transponder off in the last day or so, OR hasn't lost track of you for more than a day since last seeing you with the transponder off".


I like the open question of "Who are you?" "Uuuuuuuuh..." "Oh it's THIS guy."

I mean you DID comply...  buuuut they are still going to hate you, haha. Maybe some randomness there? Super small boost to rep up to a certain level or something? I really don't know how you'd handle that. Another possibility being they'd rage engage you. Ragegage. Or something.

In the name of simplicity, they just do the obvious thing:
Quote from: rules.csv
You issue an order to activate the transponder and wait for the cargo scan to finish.

However, instead of proceeding with the scan, the $faction $fleetName shuts down comms and powers up combat systems.
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Megas

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 12:11:56 PM »

Quote
No. I'm also thinking of removing that aspect from the customs inspection, it doesn't serve a useful purpose.
I recently learned that I can click away from the patrol during the scan and eat the -3 rep, which I always do now if I have reputation to spare.  -3 rep is a very small price to pay compared to alternatives.  Instant scans will stop that exploit cold.
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Alex

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 12:28:08 PM »

EDIT: What happens if you rapidly engage and disengage the transponder near someone?  ::troll::

If it's a patrol, they might go after you, or they might let it slide. Depends on if they "notice" it. If you just keep turning it on and off, though, they'll definitely go after you. Turning it on after they've noticed you had it off will do nothing for you except change the greeting text when they catch you.

If it's not a patrol, then turning it off won't do you any good - once they see you with the transponder on, they'll know who you are.


Quote
No. I'm also thinking of removing that aspect from the customs inspection, it doesn't serve a useful purpose.
I recently learned that I can click away from the patrol during the scan and eat the -3 rep, which I always do now if I have reputation to spare.  -3 rep is a very small price to pay compared to alternatives.  Instant scans will stop that exploit cold.

Right - not an exploit as it's intended, but the kind of superfluous mechanic that'd be nice to clean up.
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Nick XR

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 12:37:54 PM »

I foresee "who still knows who you are" being tricky but otherwise I love it!


Yeah, if the player could have some sort of feedback of what the state of near by fleets will be when the transponder is toggled that might be key.  Would prevent having to save/reload to figure out if you were far enough away from other fleets when you turned your transponder off to "go dark".  Or not, I could actually see arguments either way, but what ever the outcome here, would be interesting to see the reason behind it.

Gothars

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 01:41:18 PM »

Maybe we could just fly our ships into a garage and spray paint the hull, so the patrols will forget about us? ;D

More seriously, I think it's OK not to have perfect information about your status with individual patrols. You wouldn't have, realistically. It just should be possible to reasonably guess if they might still remember you.


Oh, Alex, will patrol commanders re-spawn with a new fleet after their current patrol ends? Or are they lost?
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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ThePirateKing

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 02:43:28 PM »

Suppose you've reached the late-game and you're a renowned bounty hunter who has a perfect reputation with the local faction; is there any chance for a patrol to assume good faith if they see you with your transponder off?  
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 02:51:49 PM by ThePirateKing »
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Alex

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 03:15:11 PM »

Yeah, if the player could have some sort of feedback of what the state of near by fleets will be when the transponder is toggled that might be key.  Would prevent having to save/reload to figure out if you were far enough away from other fleets when you turned your transponder off to "go dark".  Or not, I could actually see arguments either way, but what ever the outcome here, would be interesting to see the reason behind it.
More seriously, I think it's OK not to have perfect information about your status with individual patrols. You wouldn't have, realistically. It just should be possible to reasonably guess if they might still remember you.

Still working on some of this, but the idea is you'll be able to see the detection range of other fleets. So, if you see them in the first place, you'd be able to tell if they could see you turn the transponder off. If you can't see them at all, though...

Maybe we could just fly our ships into a garage and spray paint the hull, so the patrols will forget about us? ;D

Nnnnnnno. You can spray paint your hull, but you can't spray-paint their brain! Seriously, though, I could see how you might do something like that, or just switch out your fleet configuration, and that would theoretically factor in here, but that's one of those things that's getting too complicated, even if it may make in-fiction sense. Besides, the memory they have isn't so long as to make these things necessary. I think at most they'll remember a transponder-off fleet being hostile is something like two weeks, provided it's not in their face that entire time (in which case the timer keeps getting renewed).


Oh, Alex, will patrol commanders re-spawn with a new fleet after their current patrol ends? Or are they lost?

Currently, no, but I've been thinking about that.


Suppose you've reached the late-game and you're a renowned bounty hunter who has a perfect reputation with the local faction; is there any chance for a patrol to assume good faith if they see you with your transponder off? 

Hmm. On the one hand, that sounds reasonable. On the other hand, that'd just about remove the transponder/patrol interaction from play at that point, and it's in place to give smugglers something to worry about.

Could do something like "no rep penalty, but they scan you anyway"... but I'm not sure there's a reason to delve that deep into it. If your reputation is that high, then losing a point or two really won't matter that much here.

I could see it being nice for immersion/as a way for the game to make you feel like the faction recognizes your efforts. That'd make more sense to consider when I'm more focused on that aspect of it, though, rather than as part of these core mechanics. Generally speaking, all relationship rewards (person and faction) are not exactly fleshed out right now.
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gruberscomplete

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 04:27:29 PM »

I can so easily see how this ties into the fact that bounty fleets orbit abandoned gas giants.

So you have been being a civilian (meaning everyone in the sector knows who you are), but you want to join pirates or something... so you go for a two week respite hiding behind a gas giant with the transponder off so everyone forgets about you. Then you come out again and turn into a pirate...

So pretty much you would have to hide for a long time after going around with transponder on.
And maybe you could reduce that time by getting to a pirate base and having a "pay and spray" like from GTA vice city- pay money and they change your car color so no one remembers you.

Or you could build your own base...
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Thaago

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 04:40:56 PM »

Looks good!

It would be excellent if you could somehow get the player to ask themselves: "Am I actually sneaking in right now, or did that patrol ID me and is just waiting for me to get close before springing the trap?"

I enjoy when games make me rampantly paranoid. Snipers in Halo 2 and their single blue pixels of death come to mind.
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Xanderzoo

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 07:43:09 PM »

It might be cool if after defeating a fleet you could capture their transponder. Then you could use their transponder to pretend to be their fleet. There would have to be some kind of limitation, and you probably wouldn't be able to capture a transponder from every fleet, but it might be an interesting mechanic...
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Hopelessnoob

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Re: Transponder
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2015, 09:17:28 PM »

I hope there will be some sort of warning that pops up such as
If you activate your transponder now your relationship with the Hegemony will be hostile are you sure you want to do this?

It'd really suck to raid a food convoy think you got off and reactivate the transponder only to discover now you're hostile to the hegemony because there was a hound you didn't detect.
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