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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 574292 times)

SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #390 on: October 28, 2015, 02:50:03 PM »

Is the AI going to get any better at leading missiles? It's embarrassing watching a half-dozen machine guns miss every shot because they won't aim in front of their target.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #391 on: October 28, 2015, 03:26:28 PM »

Put an elite crew on your ships? :)

It's better at leading in general because it'll adjust the lead with time spent firing at the same target, but missiles don't get fired at for long enough for that to make much difference.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #392 on: October 28, 2015, 04:21:55 PM »

I was using 100% crews. It was in the mission refit simulator, so that may make a difference.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #393 on: October 28, 2015, 04:50:00 PM »

Continuing here to not derail that other thread further:

That reminds me, will a vengeful relationship be reversible/harder to acquire in .7? If a negative relationship to major factions becomes commonplace it would be a hassle to get permanently stuck there (easily).

No on both counts. It's not something you can acquire accidentally or, for that matter, easily - you'd have to pursue retreating enemy ships while already deep into "hostile".

Well, there isn't any kind of warning, so, yes, it happens accidentally. For once if you don't know about the consequences of pursuit - it is not communicated anywhere in the game IIRC - but also when you get distracted by a some objective you have. For example, if the flagship of a named bounty fleet gets damaged and retreats, or if you attacked a fleet to board a specific ship and it retreats.

It also works the other way around, when I'm not absolutely positive that my relation to a faction is still OKish I don't dare to pursuit them because they might permanently hate me.

In any case, some more transparency would be nice here.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #394 on: October 28, 2015, 04:58:17 PM »

I was using 100% crews. It was in the mission refit simulator, so that may make a difference.

Hmm. Just ran a refit sim with a Lasher at 60% CR and LMGs; it had literally zero trouble shooting down incoming Pilums.



That reminds me, will a vengeful relationship be reversible/harder to acquire in .7? If a negative relationship to major factions becomes commonplace it would be a hassle to get permanently stuck there (easily).

No on both counts. It's not something you can acquire accidentally or, for that matter, easily - you'd have to pursue retreating enemy ships while already deep into "hostile".

Well, there isn't any kind of warning, so, yes, it happens accidentally. For once if you don't know about the consequences of pursuit - it is not communicated anywhere in the game IIRC - but also when you get distracted by a some objective you have. For example, if the flagship of a named bounty fleet gets damaged and retreats, or if you attacked a fleet to board a specific ship and it retreats.

It also works the other way around, when I'm not absolutely positive that my relation to a faction is still OKish I don't dare to pursuit them because they might permanently hate me.

In any case, some more transparency would be nice here.

Fair enough re: transparency. But in that case you're still engaged in deliberate hostilities with that faction, so I don't know if I'd call entirely accidental. Might make sense to make "hostile" the "can't recover from this" level at some point, though (or, alternatively, allow some form of recovery from "vengeful".) Either approach would necessitate some other kind of differentiation between the levels, but being encouraged to be at -75 but not -76 doesn't feel like it's a good thing.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #395 on: October 28, 2015, 07:32:46 PM »

If I want to kill non-combat ships like say... cargo ships, I must have relations no lower than -70 or else I permanently lose markets.  (Even smuggling is impossible at Vengeful.)  The only way to destroy non-combatants like say... a relief fleet, is to pursue and kill them.  I only pursue targets if relations are -70 or higher.  Otherwise, pursuit is never a viable option.  Losing markets ruins your game forever.

Whenever I sell stuff at the Black Market and raise relations with Pirates, I take advantage of higher relations to pursue them until relations are back below -70.

Whenever I fight, relations with who I fight will be at -75 quickly.


P.S. Being able to build my own stuff, or stealing enemies' bases would mitigate Vengeful relations.  I would love to be my own self-reliant faction bent on exterminating all factions.  Who cares if everyone hates me if I can make everything I need to run my war machine?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 07:41:19 PM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #396 on: October 28, 2015, 07:58:19 PM »

Hmm. Thinking about this some more, for now I think it makes sense to just make "vengeful" recoverable from the same way "hostile" is. Doesn't sound like people are really winding up much in "vengeful" intentionally to begin with, and all it's doing is cutting out pursuit scenarios.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #397 on: October 28, 2015, 08:53:59 PM »

I was using 100% crews. It was in the mission refit simulator, so that may make a difference.
Hmm. Just ran a refit sim with a Lasher at 60% CR and LMGs; it had literally zero trouble shooting down incoming Pilums.

To clarify, I meant missiles going around or past the ship. The Salamander is an obvious example, but any missile going past at a decent clip or distance is consistently missed. Missiles coming straight on are easily hit, and missiles at not-too-big of an angle get hit due to spread.

IIRC, 0.7 Pilums have 50 health and 125 speed, so they don't make the best example ;)


In any case, I'll be doing more testing as part of something I'm working on so I'll report back then with what I see.
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LazyWizard

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #398 on: October 28, 2015, 09:05:22 PM »

Hmm. Thinking about this some more, for now I think it makes sense to just make "vengeful" recoverable from the same way "hostile" is. Doesn't sound like people are really winding up much in "vengeful" intentionally to begin with, and all it's doing is cutting out pursuit scenarios.

Maybe instead of pursuit pushing you into Vengeful, you could gain that status by having your fleet destroy ships that reactivate after battle (presuming the boarding code still does that)? These ships are helpless; the only reason to shoot them after they reactivate is to get a tiny bit more loot. I could see factions taking it as the equivalent of shooting down escape pods.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #399 on: October 28, 2015, 09:44:32 PM »

Maybe instead of pursuit pushing you into Vengeful, you could gain that status by having your fleet destroy ships that reactivate after battle (presuming the boarding code still does that)? These ships are helpless; the only reason to shoot them after they reactivate is to get a tiny bit more loot. I could see factions taking it as the equivalent of shooting down escape pods.

That'd make in-fiction sense, yeah. But it'd also make blowing up those ships a newbie trap, and essentially remove it from the game otherwise, wouldn't it? (I.E. no one that knows what they're doing would do it.) I think it might be easier just to table it for now and revisit later when there are a few more things for reputation to do.
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Bribe Guntails

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #400 on: October 29, 2015, 02:53:07 AM »

Vengeful status could be reached through a variety of actions that sum up to a sufficient degree.
Relentless hostility, preying on merchant shipping, overtly harming owned markets.

These actions can be further highlighted to the player through the text feed that scrolls down the left when docked or interacting with a fleet. Traders begging for mercy, pirates acknowledging your reputation, organizations denouncing you; all these warn you that continued hostility will push you into the No-Turning-Back zone.

What ye think?
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #401 on: October 29, 2015, 03:30:02 AM »

Doesn't sound like people are really winding up much in "vengeful" intentionally

And why would they, there's no benefit in that, just lost opportunities. Maybe if that would be changed, it could become more attractive. Either with a compensation, like a big reputation gain with the faction's enemies.
You could even block the "cooperative" standing with a faction until you're "vengeful" with their main enemy, so you basically have to go out there and murder a bunch of their helpless ships to prove yourself, gang war style. Sector 's not a nice place, right?

Or with an interesting mechanic, e.g. the faction sending head hunters after you.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 03:37:56 AM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Lucian Greymark

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #402 on: October 29, 2015, 07:17:09 AM »

Vengeful status always seemed like something that you'd have to do something particularly nasty to do, like targeting supply ships heading to a planet, or making a planet's economy collapse via overselling. Stuff like that that would put hundreds of thousands, or millions, of the faction's people in jeopardy.

Just a thought
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #403 on: October 29, 2015, 07:51:13 AM »

Vengeful should be earned after a major, strategic event, like capturing a major base (or blowing it up with the Death Star).  Chasing fleeing peons in a tactical skirmish should not be enough - it is WAR!  Why are factions' enemies not Vengeful at each other?

If I do something like capture and hold Jangala from the Hegemony, that should earn Vengeful from them.  Chasing down a few ships like pirates for a little extra loot and XP should not - no one is Vengeful at Pirates for doing that.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #404 on: October 29, 2015, 08:26:46 AM »

If the player can't chase down fleet without putting it into Vengeful status, they why can the AI do it without penalty?  The AI will always choose to pursue your fleet even if it's on the brink of Vengeful, without penalty as well.
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