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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 574494 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #315 on: October 20, 2015, 06:26:15 AM »

Quote
Oh, just realized I forgot to mention one more detail on SO - it also allows the 0-flux boost to function regardless of flux level. So, yeah, keep-away isn't going to be much of an option.
That is huge!  It will probably be more like +50 speed on-top of the speed bonus given by Safety Override, because most ships lose their bonus speed once shields are up and the fighting starts.  Fighters are starting to look so slow...

I was the sort of player who would stack both Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector on as many ships as possible when both used to be stackable.  The speed gains were very powerful, and made big ships (namely capitals, which is Safety Override cannot be used on) fun to pilot.

The OP cost is not just fairly expensive, it is extremely expensive (more than the +capacitor and +vent hullmods given by Flux Dynamics skill), but the power may be worth it.  I may need to give up bigger missiles and Hardened Subsystems to squeeze it in for many ships.  Even then, I may not always want Safety Override because low peak performance will hurt if I need to solo fleets.  That said, I already see easy configuration adjustments for some ships with plenty of OP (looking at Dominator... you don't need luxury weapons like Mjolnir, go use Hellbore that is nearly as good for 8 less OP each!)

Quote
There is the 0.33 peak time multiplier as a tradeoff
Since I use Hardened Subsystems on almost every ship, this will be more than that if I am forced to remove Hardened Subsystems to squeeze Safety Override in.
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Volken

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #316 on: October 20, 2015, 06:43:19 AM »



So many awesome new things! Looking forward to the update. Also just a little suggestion, I think the expanded magazines hull mod should be changed to buff ballistic weapons in some way since it has no use at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 06:49:04 AM by Volken »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #317 on: October 20, 2015, 06:57:26 AM »

Poor fighters really are slow. :(
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #318 on: October 20, 2015, 07:16:46 AM »

One more question:  Does the peak time multiplier from Safety Override speed up CR decay?

When soloing the enemy with a ship, smaller ships get more time post peak-performance, especially with Hardened Subsystems.  For example, take a Wolf, 180 seconds (or 270 seconds with Hardened Subsystems) of peak performance.  With 60 points of CR to burn through, it is about 240 more seconds (or 360 with Hardened Subsystems).  If it is my flagship, I probably have 100 CR, and 20% more CR is another 120 seconds with hardened subsystems.

This is why Hardened Subsystems is good for any ship that solos fleets, or any frigate in endgame fights.

Hyperion might benefit from Safety Override.  Even with max flux stats, it spends A LOT of time venting due to how much flux blasters (and frequent teleporting) generate.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #319 on: October 20, 2015, 07:31:09 AM »

Also just a little suggestion, I think the expanded magazines hull mod should be changed to buff ballistic weapons in some way since it has no use at the moment.

Or just renamed to something like "increased weapon charge" or" "overcharged weapon capacitors" to reflect that it only affects energy weapons now. It's called "Charges" in the weapon stats, after all.


Hyperion might benefit from Safety Override.  Even with max flux stats, it spends A LOT of time venting due to how much flux blasters (and frequent teleporting) generate.

With 40 seconds base PRT and no real need for the speed buff thanks to teleporting? No thanks.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #320 on: October 20, 2015, 07:43:27 AM »

Hyperion might benefit from Safety Override.  Even with max flux stats, it spends A LOT of time venting due to how much flux blasters (and frequent teleporting) generate.
With 40 seconds base PRT and no real need for the speed buff thanks to teleporting? No thanks.
Depends.  When soloing fleets, most of the Hyperion's time is spent in post peak-performance (i.e., when CR is decaying), especially with Hardened Subsystems.  If Safety Override merely cuts peak performance but not CR decay, 80 seconds lost may be less if Hyperion spends only 1 or 2 seconds venting instead of 3 to 5 seconds, and Hyperion vents much.
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Schwartz

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #321 on: October 20, 2015, 07:51:37 AM »

With the new ability to overtune ships, maybe it'd be in order to look at the SS+ mod and how it adds fighter bonuses to the Logistics tree. Great idea, great execution.

I also think the Safety Override mod is too extreme in both bonuses and penalties. If you were to halve the buffs and shave a bit off the negatives, you'd still have a functional mod.

Edit: To be clear - I very much wanna try it as it is, but I predict it's going to have to be mellowed down a bit.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 08:36:31 AM by Schwartz »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #322 on: October 20, 2015, 09:55:25 AM »

A lot of the players here forget that flux dissipation gives diminishing returns.  Sure, you can maximize DPS on your flux-heavy weapons and have very short venting time.  But the fact of the matter is: your shield is no better than before!  It may sound like a great idea to stick SO on an Enforcer and reap endless power, but then you realize that its shield is made of paper, you've got no OP to spare for Heavy Armor, and the time limit is ticking fast.

This could get ridiculous on larger ships.  I don't even want to think about what an Eagle does with SO.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Without extra OP to spend, though, something like an Eagle is very starved for OP once you put SO on.


Man, I really hope the new patch will release soon as I'm really getting anxious to play with all the new STUFF! But Alex, would you say early game is harder, easier or about the same as it currently is?

I'd say the early game is... a bit of both. On the one hand, you can join ongoing battles and have an easier time with that. On the other, it's harder to avoid unwanted battles - you might get caught off by pirates that went dark and that you spot when they're literally a few seconds away, or you might just get chased down by a well-timed emergency burn. It takes a lot more care to avoid engagements.


So, assuming one of the new large weapons is a rack of the "Hammers" and the other fill the former role of the Hurricane, we are still stuck with a single weapon for support on larges missile mounts like the Astral's. Also with this fire-rate, it sounds like a guaranteed kill if anyone but an Onslaught or Paragon vent or overload near that new Hurricane.

Well, you know what they say about assuming :)

Oh, right. Same question then: Absolute or probability modifier? Does this affect the officers of the faction's own fleets, too?
Could be quite a handicap if e.g. all or most Tri-Tachyon officers are cautious, but interesting to fight against (or with! :))nonetheless.

Each faction has a set of probabilities for officer personalities, set up like so in the .faction file (this one is for the Hegemony):
"captain":{
         "timid":1,
         "cautious":5,
         "steady":10,
         "aggressive":10,
      },

      
This is used both for picking officers to command faction ships and for picking the personalities of mercenaries available on their markets.


Sounds good, although quite some frigates rely on small weapons already (Lasher, Shade, Afflictor, Sheppard, Omen). I'd like to see some destroyers do the same.

Good point on the Shade and Afflictor; for the Omen and the Shepherd, I'd say that small weapons aren't really their primary armament - it's EMP and drones, respectively.


...Oh. It won't be very useful then.

I imagine bribes will be quite useful, considering that you'll have much less information about the position of enemy fleets than now and will be more likely to run into otherwise fatal situations.

"Tithes" are Pather-specific; it's not a generic "you can now bribe anybody" thing.


Also just a little suggestion, I think the expanded magazines hull mod should be changed to buff ballistic weapons in some way since it has no use at the moment.

Yeah, it needs a tweak at some point (probably, as Gothars said, a renaming, since it's only useful for energy weapons, outside of mods).


One more question:  Does the peak time multiplier from Safety Override speed up CR decay?

It doesn't. But then once you get to that point, you're paying extra supplies to keep the ship deployed, and you get to that point much quicker with SO.

When soloing the enemy with a ship, smaller ships get more time post peak-performance, especially with Hardened Subsystems.  For example, take a Wolf, 180 seconds (or 270 seconds with Hardened Subsystems) of peak performance.  With 60 points of CR to burn through, it is about 240 more seconds (or 360 with Hardened Subsystems).  If it is my flagship, I probably have 100 CR, and 20% more CR is another 120 seconds with hardened subsystems.

This is why Hardened Subsystems is good for any ship that solos fleets, or any frigate in endgame fights.

Hyperion might benefit from Safety Override.  Even with max flux stats, it spends A LOT of time venting due to how much flux blasters (and frequent teleporting) generate.

Hmm. I hadn't been thinking about the "CR decay speed" bonus from HS; sort of dismissed it since its +peak time bonus isn't very useful with SO. Let me reduce this down to 25% - thinking about it, it's a bit much at 50%. It was actually doubling the time, so you'd get 360 instead of 180. At 25%, you'd get 240.


I also think the Safety Override mod is too extreme in both bonuses and penalties. If you were to halve the buffs and shave a bit off the negatives, you'd still have a functional mod.

Edit: To be clear - I very much wanna try it as it is, but I predict it's going to have to be mellowed down a bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. On the flip side, if it's on the powerful side, it'll get more playtesting!
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #323 on: October 20, 2015, 02:18:09 PM »

With the new missile ship, that brings midlines up to 4 cruisers. Hopefully we can get a new low tech cruiser as the only other one is the Dominator (you could argue the Venture is midline due to its medium energy mount).
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #324 on: October 20, 2015, 02:53:57 PM »

If Shepherd is low-tech (due to codex saying Borer drones are low-tech), and Mule and Venture are of the same style as Shepherd, it can be argued that Venture is low-tech despite the energy weapon mount.  That said, the aforementioned yellow ship line appears to straddle the low-tech and midline epochs.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #325 on: October 20, 2015, 03:17:30 PM »

What an impressive changelog. I will refrain from comment on some of those weapon changes since I've been playing with mods way too much and my view on balance may be a little off. But regardless,

Revamped trade, pirate, and mercenary fleet spawning

What is the practical effect of this, exactly? Are there more fleets in the game in general now or fewer? Are they bigger/smaller?

Added Luddic Path faction, radical arm of the Luddic Church

A really cool idea, I hope more stuff like this get added. Are they hostile to every other faction in the game?

Fighting a faction's enemies in their system will no longer improve reputation with them

This change is confusing to me, does it mean that, say, clearing pirates in a Hegemony system won't gain reputation with the Hegemony anymore? If true, the only way of gaining rep through combat would be by fighting in systems with bounties and by assisting in battles then?

If I'm understanding this correctly then this is a big nerf to rep acquisition, not sure how I feel about it.

Turned off customs inspections, at least for now - sneaking into market w/ transponder off fills the same role

A good trade off. Customs are a good idea in general but they do get annoying pretty fast. I was always found of the idea of the player being able to subscribe to a faction trading license (that could be revoked) so they could avoid the annoying inspections.

Hammerhead: changed small energy mounts to hybrid (can slot in energy/ballistic)

This mount will be a godsend to many mods. But I'm curious, is the Hammerhead the only ship in the game that currently has those turrets? Seems like such a major addition of turret type could be used to adjust the balance of many ships.

Added new midline missile cruiser

Sounds exciting, but a little concerning too. I always felt that missile weapons are overpowered in general in the game, especially the Harpoons (something I may elaborate more in a balance topic), but it is a cruiser so I guess its fine.

Other than that, I'm happy to see a lot of bugfixing related to music in general I've been having a lot of issues when the playback just suddenly stops after playing, sometimes after 5 minutes, sometimes after hours. Of course, it only happened after modding in a lot of songs in the game but since the update is getting a lot of songs too it was something I was concerned about.

Really looking forward to the patch, I hope to see it soon.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 03:19:40 PM by Cyan Leader »
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #326 on: October 20, 2015, 03:34:09 PM »

If Shepherd is low-tech (due to codex saying Borer drones are low-tech), and Mule and Venture are of the same style as Shepherd, it can be argued that Venture is low-tech despite the energy weapon mount.  That said, the aforementioned yellow ship line appears to straddle the low-tech and midline epochs.

I'm kinda writing on a story/analysis/history lecture about ship epochs atm, and I'd argue that all three epochs are fluently going over into each other and that this is reflected in the ships. There are many ships, including the Venture, with features belonging to more than one epoch, marking the transition between them.

An excerpt:

Spoiler
At the same time the first advantages in energy weapon technology were made, promising much better effect against shields while still being a threat for old fashioned armor. These early energy weapons were most likely not, as some of my colleagues claim, miniaturized versions of the gigantic plasma weaponry housed in the arms of an Onslaught. That is a feat that was not accomplished until many years later in the form of pulse weaponry. No, everything indicates that the first energy weapons are directly derived from mining equipment, resulting in enormous destructive power but terrible tactical properties like short range and poor efficiency.
The first ships to utilize these new weapons were actually not primarily designed for military purposes. The big military contractors of the time were not convinced by the performance and likely thought the very idea of basing their designs around mining equipment preposterous. So the funding for a new type of commercial ship design was realized with the help of private investors. These were mostly people with close ties to the industry, who had a lot to win by expanding mining claims and trade routes into uncharted territories while keeping their work crews safe.
This resulted in hulls like the Venture-class Cruiser or the Mule-class combat-freighter. These ships coupled the new omni-shield and offensive energy weapon technology, but still relied on the heavy armor and ballistic defensive weaponry of their military counterparts. This double line of heavy defenses makes them quite popular even on today’s market.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #327 on: October 20, 2015, 03:49:57 PM »

@ Gothars:  Some of the midline ships, namely Sunder and Heron, look like they belong in high-tech if they had a blue paint job and increased CR deployment cost.  Heron especially feels misplaced - it feels like a high-tech ship in every way except color, CR cost, and ship system.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #328 on: October 20, 2015, 04:30:17 PM »

What is the practical effect of this, exactly? Are there more fleets in the game in general now or fewer? Are they bigger/smaller?

The goal is to provide more fleets for the player to fight/interact with while not actually having more fleets in the game. So: feels like more, is fewer.

Fleet-size-wise, not really affected.

This change is confusing to me, does it mean that, say, clearing pirates in a Hegemony system won't gain reputation with the Hegemony anymore? If true, the only way of gaining rep through combat would be by fighting in systems with bounties and by assisting in battles then?

If I'm understanding this correctly then this is a big nerf to rep acquisition, not sure how I feel about it.

Yeah, you've got it. We'll see how it plays out! Definitely felt too fast when you had both.

This mount will be a godsend to many mods. But I'm curious, is the Hammerhead the only ship in the game that currently has those turrets? Seems like such a major addition of turret type could be used to adjust the balance of many ships.

It is for now. As with universal slots, I don't want to overdo it. Those slots are "special".
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Debido

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Re: Starsector 0.7a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #329 on: October 20, 2015, 07:03:24 PM »

Is there not some way you can tie customs inspections to an actual useful purpose instead of removing it? With the ally system and the ability to tether a customs fleet to the player fleet. You could make a system for the inspection fleets to follow you, protect you and aid you in combat while you're in their system.

Or maybe after a certain reputation level or cash handed over they give you useable tokens that make an allied defence fleet show up in combat to assist you, or rush to you location to protect and assist you in some way.

As long as you can incentivise players to want to get a customs inspection because it helps them in the long run you could keep them in.
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