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Author Topic: [0.97a] Nexerelin v0.11.1b "Clausewitz Protocol" (update 2024-02-11)  (Read 3014026 times)

SonnaBanana

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4470 on: February 06, 2022, 01:50:33 AM »

Will the player's faction be customizable with traits in the future, with the same traits other factions have?
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gentulf

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4471 on: February 06, 2022, 06:51:21 AM »

- Originally the conquest victory required eliminating every other victory-eligible faction. This took way too long even in vanilla, much less modded games, and it was always faster to do the diplomatic victory if you really want the endgame screen. So it became the majority-population and two-thirds heavy industry rules.
-- The intent of having the two different requirements was to create different strategies: snap a lot of enemy small planets, or punch out the core worlds with HI? Although I hadn't considered the "spam your own heavy industry" exploit.

- For the player I'd still expect a diplomatic victory to be preferable to conquest, with allies or otherwise, unless you're already associated with the biggest boys like the Hegemony and/or League. You can just throw a bunch of prisoners, AI cores and operatives at factions to get friendly with them (and kill off any small, recalcitrant factions). The main contribution of being in an alliance is to get dragged into random wars and otherwise incur increased risks of negative diplomacy events (the diplomacy 'disposition' calculation treats alliance members as having the size of the full alliance when calculating the dominance penalty, and this applies to intra-alliance relations too).

- Thinking about it a bit more, a problem with the diplomatic victory for NPC factions is that they don't try to win it at all. (They don't specifically try to win a conquest victory either, but tend towards it 'on their own' as territory gets taken during wars).

- All things considered, I'm vaguely thinking of (adding a setting to) remove all victory conditions completely, and let the player measure their own success. Don't a couple of Paradox games do this?

Hmm, isn't diplo victory kinda boring though? You just do missions, use operatives etc.

One thing that could also be (theoretically) done if you have a win condition that you have to maintain is to have some sort of "rally" when all non-allied factions try to prevent you from getting the win (e. g if you just spam heavy industry to rush for victory then you will probably not be able to defend it).

If you are thinking about removing all victory conditions... maybe then you can simply leave the conquest one? Most players might not go for it but it gives both groups (ones that want to "win" and others that don't care) an option of playing how they want (btw most people don't actually finish M&B because conquest takes very long too).

As for Paradox games: Stellaris has just a conquest condition (which includes the option of vassalizing others or adding to a federation). It actually had some others in the past but they removed them for some reason. Personally, Stellaris late game is pretty boring and tedious, I would prefer to have something other than conquest to go for, but oh well (they do have "crisis" events in the late game that keep you busy).
I think Crusader Kings doesn't have a victory condition per se, I am not 100% sure.

For Starsector it's probably better to have conditions that are not quite fast to achieve as the game is naturally pretty slow (all this rep grinding, exploration and colony development will always take quite some time).

A side note about alliances again: a player that's just commissioned by one of the winning factions should probably not be considered winning. Also maybe the win should just be for the alliance founder so that players are encouraged to develop their own alliances instead of just joining another.
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Exasperation

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4472 on: February 06, 2022, 04:27:12 PM »

As for Paradox games: Stellaris has just a conquest condition (which includes the option of vassalizing others or adding to a federation). It actually had some others in the past but they removed them for some reason. Personally, Stellaris late game is pretty boring and tedious, I would prefer to have something other than conquest to go for, but oh well (they do have "crisis" events in the late game that keep you busy).
I think Crusader Kings doesn't have a victory condition per se, I am not 100% sure.

For Starsector it's probably better to have conditions that are not quite fast to achieve as the game is naturally pretty slow (all this rep grinding, exploration and colony development will always take quite some time).
Stellaris has a timed score-based victory condition - you set a target year, and when that time arrives the empire with the highest score (including non-conquest factors like technology) is declared the winner - and you have the option of disabling it completely.  Conquest is certainly the easiest way to win, but not the only one.

I personally think having an option to disable victory conditions entirely would be great.  I don't play with Nexerelin to "win", I do it primarily so that I have a dynamic world to play in, where meaningful non-deterministic changes are occurring (there are other nice features too, but that's the main draw for me).  For me, the victory conditions are just unnecessary (albeit minor) annoyances which pop up and briefly interrupt my gameplay at some point, but which I otherwise ignore.
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ceemeeoh

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4473 on: February 06, 2022, 06:28:09 PM »

Yeah, don't get me started on how much I love the first three hours of every Stellaris game I start up and watch it collapse into micromanagement hell.

I personally think having an option to disable victory conditions entirely would be great.  I don't play with Nexerelin to "win", I do it primarily so that I have a dynamic world to play in, where meaningful non-deterministic changes are occurring (there are other nice features too, but that's the main draw for me).  For me, the victory conditions are just unnecessary (albeit minor) annoyances which pop up and briefly interrupt my gameplay at some point, but which I otherwise ignore.

This is also my (limited, four complete rounds of Nex) preference for Nexerelin: I want the dynamic interactions to be already in the game as it just feels "expected" of a tense, on-the-brink-of-conflict space sim, but you've stepped up and offered your interpretation of how it should go, and I enjoy it, so I play it.  But I don't care much for the "win" condition per se as it gets a bit hectic and clashes with the exploration portion as the first few hours give way to the "oh ***, gotta hustle" portion.  Again, my preference. 

Side tangent: one thing I enjoy from games is an inherent feel of uniqueness in every playthrough, whether from the collision of what I expect to happen vs what really happens, or from bugs in the game that somehow morph into "features," or from the tension that you cannot entirely predict.  Roguelikes do this with varying success, so do games that just happen to create dynamic systems with rough edges in their play (such as STALKER), and generative "story" style sim games like Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress.  Nex sort of facilitates this random-but-not-lol-random scenario where I'm mentally picturing the alliances everywhere I am and how e.g. I could find myself on the other end of the sector and suddenly Nachiketa flips and I gotta find the second-largest gas station in the galaxy.  Or my rival faction's home sector is close to capture and hmmmm how do I take advantage of this?




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Theurgist

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4474 on: February 06, 2022, 08:38:01 PM »

How do you form a special task force again? I managed it last game, and now I can't for the life of me work out how I did, lol
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Nesano

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4475 on: February 06, 2022, 09:28:46 PM »

I've observed factions having lots of "Task Forces" or "Special Purpose" fleets patroling around objectives and also just outside hyperspace at times, for whatever reason. Making factions churn out more domestic patrol fleets the more you raid their planets would be a much more organic way of going about it. It would also be a more sensible solution than making one slow fleet that ESP tracks the player, considering multiple fleets orbiting around a colony makes it effectively impossible to raid it without first dealing with the fleets.

Also, the vanilla mission mechanic where the fleet just spawns out of the ether isn't a very good way of going about it because, at least with your transponder off, they'd have no way of knowing it's you. Colony defense patrols wouldn't need to be concerned about that, though, because they'd be going after anything that doesn't have a transponder turned on.
I don't think spawning an in-system patrol fleet in response to raids is a replacement for vengeance fleets
– although it might be worth adding as its own feature nevertheless, to counteract player repeat raiding.

There's a couple of reasons for this:
- Vengeance fleets are created in response to all hostile player activity (including in hyperspace, or systems with no markets of the target faction), not just raids
- If one system spawns more patrols in response to player activity in the same system, the player just goes elsewhere; all faction systems could spawn more patrols, but that aggravates the annoying thing about NPCs generating fleets from nothing at will.

The two biggest problems with vengeance fleets is that they have psychic Oblivion Guard powers that aren't supported by any existing game mechanic and they never send vengeance fleets to kill fleets from factions declaring all-out war on them. Not to mention the fleets come from nothing. I've just been console-killing them, so it's only an inconvenience at the moment, but it'd be nice if it were replaced by a system that didn't violate the established rules of the game universe.
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Bartelemys

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4476 on: February 07, 2022, 04:37:27 AM »

Hello everyone, I had a question about the governorship system. I'm currently doing a Tri-Tachyon friendly run and thought that it would be nice to have more benefits from them before doing my own thing, so I looked into buying governorship. Now, it seemed quite attractive, as the current administrator mentioned a "130k income". I mean, that sounds great. Unfortunately, it's been several months now and I only get 25k ... it's four times less than my commission, yet cost me 1.2 million credits. At first, I thought about buying governorship for several planets and stations since they all had such a good income, meaning they would pay for themselves in less than a year, but now I just feel scammed. Did I misunderstand the numbers and the income sold to me was yearly and not monthly ? Or is there actually a problem somewhere ? Thanks in advance for the help you might offer.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4477 on: February 07, 2022, 04:42:37 PM »

Hello everyone, I had a question about the governorship system. I'm currently doing a Tri-Tachyon friendly run and thought that it would be nice to have more benefits from them before doing my own thing, so I looked into buying governorship. Now, it seemed quite attractive, as the current administrator mentioned a "130k income". I mean, that sounds great. Unfortunately, it's been several months now and I only get 25k ... it's four times less than my commission, yet cost me 1.2 million credits. At first, I thought about buying governorship for several planets and stations since they all had such a good income, meaning they would pay for themselves in less than a year, but now I just feel scammed. Did I misunderstand the numbers and the income sold to me was yearly and not monthly ? Or is there actually a problem somewhere ? Thanks in advance for the help you might offer.
The income value given there is the contribution of the market's monthly income to the governorship price breakdown, which is 6 month's worth of income. Guess I should clarify this in the text.

One case where governorship is more useful is on planets you just conquered, since you get a 50% discount to the total price.

The two biggest problems with vengeance fleets is that they have psychic Oblivion Guard powers that aren't supported by any existing game mechanic and they never send vengeance fleets to kill fleets from factions declaring all-out war on them. Not to mention the fleets come from nothing. I've just been console-killing them, so it's only an inconvenience at the moment, but it'd be nice if it were replaced by a system that didn't violate the established rules of the game universe.
If you're console-killing them anyway, may as well turn off vengeance fleets in the config (set their size mult to zero, or turn off vengeance point generation).

Factions don't send vengeance fleets to other factions because there's no equivalent of the player fleet to target. They do attack other factions quite aggressively in any number of ways, up to sat bombing under the right circumstances.

The ESP isn't great but vengeance fleets rarely catch the player even with it and would become a complete non-threat without.
But I'll still probably replace them with the mission popup ambushes (and delay or hide the notification of a vengeance fleet spawning), since that only needs to "know" where the player is once instead of every time. (Transponder-off raids? They still find some evidence it's you (hence the rep loss), unless you're using the story point option for literally every raid, and they only send vengeance fleets if they're already hostile to you anyway. Further, in the planned scenario, who's to say it's specifically because of the raids?)
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Bartelemys

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4478 on: February 08, 2022, 03:07:44 AM »

Hello everyone, I had a question about the governorship system. I'm currently doing a Tri-Tachyon friendly run and thought that it would be nice to have more benefits from them before doing my own thing, so I looked into buying governorship. Now, it seemed quite attractive, as the current administrator mentioned a "130k income". I mean, that sounds great. Unfortunately, it's been several months now and I only get 25k ... it's four times less than my commission, yet cost me 1.2 million credits. At first, I thought about buying governorship for several planets and stations since they all had such a good income, meaning they would pay for themselves in less than a year, but now I just feel scammed. Did I misunderstand the numbers and the income sold to me was yearly and not monthly ? Or is there actually a problem somewhere ? Thanks in advance for the help you might offer.
The income value given there is the contribution of the market's monthly income to the governorship price breakdown, which is 6 month's worth of income. Guess I should clarify this in the text.

One case where governorship is more useful is on planets you just conquered, since you get a 50% discount to the total price.

Thank you for the clarification, that would mean that with a 130k income, it would take me five ingame years to get my 1.2 million back. That's ... awfully reasonable ;D But really, in that case colonizing a planet myself is the better alternative. Governorship is a bit lacklustre in comparison, especially considering how much it actually cost. I'd say it's a welcome option nonetheless though. Makes tha game more engaging by adding choice.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 03:10:13 AM by Bartelemys »
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LeoSem

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4479 on: February 08, 2022, 03:15:44 PM »

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster.
I have an issue with the taskforce system. I wonder if it is a bug or if I am missing something: I created a taskforce on my Colony with a substantial fleet and an officer. It didn't last long... It is listed as "fleet destroyed" in the "Special Force" Intel panel. And I cannot disband it.

My issue is I cannot access the "create a taskforce" option with the station commander: it is not available because I cannot have more than one taskforce. Thus I can't "revive ship", and I can't disband my dead detached fleet to create a new one

Is there something I am missing here? Do I need to do smth else to access this option again? (In the worst case, can I delete this taskforce through the console command?)
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Nesano

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4480 on: February 08, 2022, 04:47:36 PM »

The two biggest problems with vengeance fleets is that they have psychic Oblivion Guard powers that aren't supported by any existing game mechanic and they never send vengeance fleets to kill fleets from factions declaring all-out war on them. Not to mention the fleets come from nothing. I've just been console-killing them, so it's only an inconvenience at the moment, but it'd be nice if it were replaced by a system that didn't violate the established rules of the game universe.
If you're console-killing them anyway, may as well turn off vengeance fleets in the config (set their size mult to zero, or turn off vengeance point generation).

Factions don't send vengeance fleets to other factions because there's no equivalent of the player fleet to target. They do attack other factions quite aggressively in any number of ways, up to sat bombing under the right circumstances.

The ESP isn't great but vengeance fleets rarely catch the player even with it and would become a complete non-threat without.
But I'll still probably replace them with the mission popup ambushes (and delay or hide the notification of a vengeance fleet spawning), since that only needs to "know" where the player is once instead of every time. (Transponder-off raids? They still find some evidence it's you (hence the rep loss), unless you're using the story point option for literally every raid, and they only send vengeance fleets if they're already hostile to you anyway. Further, in the planned scenario, who's to say it's specifically because of the raids?)

That'd be a worthy replacement at least until a better solution can be thought of and implemented. At least then the player can just watch out after kicking the hornet's nest instead of having to perpetually move away from a fleet that can't catch them but always knows where they are.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4481 on: February 08, 2022, 07:06:44 PM »

How do you form a special task force again? I managed it last game, and now I can't for the life of me work out how I did, lol
Talk to a military-type base official on one of your colonies.

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster.
I have an issue with the taskforce system. I wonder if it is a bug or if I am missing something: I created a taskforce on my Colony with a substantial fleet and an officer. It didn't last long... It is listed as "fleet destroyed" in the "Special Force" Intel panel. And I cannot disband it.

My issue is I cannot access the "create a taskforce" option with the station commander: it is not available because I cannot have more than one taskforce. Thus I can't "revive ship", and I can't disband my dead detached fleet to create a new one

Is there something I am missing here? Do I need to do smth else to access this option again? (In the worst case, can I delete this taskforce through the console command?)
Hello and welcome!

To disband a destroyed task group, you need to be docked at a player colony (I'll remove the player faction requirement next version). This will add all the officers and ships (at zero CR and hull) back to your fleet.
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Mikomikomiko

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4482 on: February 09, 2022, 06:08:53 AM »

To disband a destroyed task group, you need to be docked at a player colony (I'll remove the player faction requirement next version). This will add all the officers and ships (at zero CR and hull) back to your fleet.

Was having this same issue. Thank you for this!
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LeoSem

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4483 on: February 09, 2022, 07:45:53 AM »

How do you form a special task force again? I managed it last game, and now I can't for the life of me work out how I did, lol
Talk to a military-type base official on one of your colonies.

Hi everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster.
I have an issue with the taskforce system. I wonder if it is a bug or if I am missing something: I created a taskforce on my Colony with a substantial fleet and an officer. It didn't last long... It is listed as "fleet destroyed" in the "Special Force" Intel panel. And I cannot disband it.

My issue is I cannot access the "create a taskforce" option with the station commander: it is not available because I cannot have more than one taskforce. Thus I can't "revive ship", and I can't disband my dead detached fleet to create a new one

Is there something I am missing here? Do I need to do smth else to access this option again? (In the worst case, can I delete this taskforce through the console command?)
Hello and welcome!

To disband a destroyed task group, you need to be docked at a player colony (I'll remove the player faction requirement next version). This will add all the officers and ships (at zero CR and hull) back to your fleet.


Thank you! that was bugging me (this task force had a beautiful Legion freshly refitted, the first I found in this game)
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Snosibsnob

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Re: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.4b "Dissonance" (hotfix 2022-01-30)
« Reply #4484 on: February 09, 2022, 05:41:03 PM »

Spoiler
Anybody else having problems with the "Showdown" quest for Midnight Dissonant? I beat all of the Hegemony forces but the quest hasn't been completed or continued.
[close]
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