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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)  (Read 1781495 times)

Yunru

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4035 on: July 21, 2021, 01:17:55 AM »

Presumably because Pirates also have temporary markets in their raiding bases, and that temporary-ness doesn't go away when they're captured by another faction.

Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4036 on: July 21, 2021, 01:22:23 AM »

Presumably because Pirates also have temporary markets in their raiding bases, and that temporary-ness doesn't go away when they're captured by another faction.

By temporary markets you mean the trading you can do on hidden pirate markets (for example bounty pirate colonies) last I checked strike missions and player military action destroys these "temporary raiding markets" are you saying NPC's can capture and make them permanent I've never seen that happen at all.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:26:14 AM by Flacman3000 »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4037 on: July 21, 2021, 01:56:35 AM »

allowPirateInvasions: Pirate-type factions* can launch invasions, and can themselves be targeted for invasions by NPC factions. (there are also a couple of other, related effects)

countPiratesForVictory: If false, pirate-type factions are not checked for the conquest or diplomacy victory types (i.e. you don't need to befriend pirates and their markets don't count towards the total pool for conquest threshold).
However, the player-commissioning faction always counts for victory, so for player with a pirate commission the pirate markets and relations are checked for the victory condition.

*this includes pirates, Luddic Path, and the Junk Pirates mod faction


Config changes are reflected in existing saves.
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Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4038 on: July 21, 2021, 02:41:36 AM »

allowPirateInvasions: Pirate-type factions* can launch invasions, and can themselves be targeted for invasions by NPC factions. (there are also a couple of other, related effects)

countPiratesForVictory: If false, pirate-type factions are not checked for the conquest or diplomacy victory types (i.e. you don't need to befriend pirates and their markets don't count towards the total pool for conquest threshold).
However, the player-commissioning faction always counts for victory, so for player with a pirate commission the pirate markets and relations are checked for the victory condition.

*this includes pirates, Luddic Path, and the Junk Pirates mod faction


Config changes are reflected in existing saves.

Thank you so much for this clear information! Do I need to worry about game breaking "related affects" or do pirates have other affects relating to normal invasion that I don't need to know about as I'm curious why pirate invasions are off by default.

TL DR what are the related affects when set to true? For allowpinvasion.
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4039 on: July 21, 2021, 03:26:27 AM »

The big thing with pirate invasions is that 1) in-lore it's not really supposed to be how they operate (though installing a lot of faction mods often really balloons out the number of pirate markets and thus makes them disproportionately big) 2) the gear and building options available to pirates usually suck, so they can get steamrolled by bigger factions really easily, who then add that market power to what they already have making them more obnoxious to fight against, and 3) because pirates are hostile to 90% of factions and are restricted from making peace, if they are invasion-enabled they tend to distract everyone from making war on each other.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have on, and you can even flip it off and on as you wish if you want to have periods of the big boys going "okay, I've had enough of this" (and, with faction mods on, it also addresses the weirdness of the player being the only one with agency to crush pirate markets), but it does kind of turn the pirates and pathers into Just Another Faction That People Beat Up.
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Yunru

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4040 on: July 21, 2021, 06:58:20 AM »

I really don't like the "victory" conditions, at least for the AI.

Being told [Insert Hegemony alliance here] is too big and all other factions will fade into irrelevance is just... annoying. Especially when I know that if I keep playing that won't happen.

Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4041 on: July 21, 2021, 01:31:32 PM »

The big thing with pirate invasions is that 1) in-lore it's not really supposed to be how they operate (though installing a lot of faction mods often really balloons out the number of pirate markets and thus makes them disproportionately big) 2) the gear and building options available to pirates usually suck, so they can get steamrolled by bigger factions really easily, who then add that market power to what they already have making them more obnoxious to fight against, and 3) because pirates are hostile to 90% of factions and are restricted from making peace, if they are invasion-enabled they tend to distract everyone from making war on each other.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have on, and you can even flip it off and on as you wish if you want to have periods of the big boys going "okay, I've had enough of this" (and, with faction mods on, it also addresses the weirdness of the player being the only one with agency to crush pirate markets), but it does kind of turn the pirates and pathers into Just Another Faction That People Beat Up.

ahh I see thanks for that in-depth analysis and insight I was thinking about setting allowpinvasions to true because I wanted the pirates to be able to attempt capturing colonies after they have been completely wiped out by me or assisting them if I am allied with them. I am fearful that if I wipe them out they won't exist anymore to invade thus making them extinct in a way but I was curious how they respawned back if they can't invade anyhow.
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idiotekque

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4042 on: July 21, 2021, 02:28:54 PM »

I really don't like the "victory" conditions, at least for the AI.

Being told [Insert Hegemony alliance here] is too big and all other factions will fade into irrelevance is just... annoying. Especially when I know that if I keep playing that won't happen.

This happened about a month into the game for me, lol. Pack it up boys, Hegemony wins.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4043 on: July 21, 2021, 04:05:04 PM »

well, family IS always more powerful
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capshades

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4044 on: July 21, 2021, 05:58:45 PM »

Yeah, while I like the Hegemony more than most people, the fact that they somehow allied with the Persean League and now all resistance is futile only a couple years into the game kinda kills the whole warring sector idea...
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DownTheDrain

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4045 on: July 21, 2021, 07:18:04 PM »

I usually console command faction relations before they get silly.
Not just to prevent super coalitions that go against the lore but also to boost smaller mod factions.
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Kossilar

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4046 on: July 22, 2021, 11:11:54 AM »

Experiencing a bug where I don't get a warning about incoming invasion fleets. I get a warning with a distinct sound for expeditions, but when another faction is attacking my colony in order to take it over I get nothing, so I have no opportunity to defend myself.

Its possible that there's a standard notification popping up, but given the sheer volume of notifications generated by unrelated activity its impossible to read them all.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 11:15:44 AM by Kossilar »
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Kiddin Me

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4047 on: July 22, 2021, 04:03:41 PM »

It isn't a critical issue, but there's some built-in supply and demand strangeness in the base game, insofar as the Luddic Path and several Pirate locations have permanent shortfalls of primarily supplies and fuel (which provides permanent, guaranteed profits), while the High Command at Sindria means that there's also a permanent supply shortage there, as well.

Are there any thoughts about mitigating these by e.g. adding a Gamma Core to Sindria and providing a Heavy Industries to one of the Luddic Path markets?
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4048 on: July 22, 2021, 09:36:49 PM »

EDIT: add first point

TL DR what are the related affects when set to true? For allowpinvasion.
It lets pirates have ceasefires with other factions, and join alliances. Also a few minor things (like Nex raids will affect pirate markets in the target system).

The big thing with pirate invasions is that 1) in-lore it's not really supposed to be how they operate (though installing a lot of faction mods often really balloons out the number of pirate markets and thus makes them disproportionately big) 2) the gear and building options available to pirates usually suck, so they can get steamrolled by bigger factions really easily, who then add that market power to what they already have making them more obnoxious to fight against, and 3) because pirates are hostile to 90% of factions and are restricted from making peace, if they are invasion-enabled they tend to distract everyone from making war on each other.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have on, and you can even flip it off and on as you wish if you want to have periods of the big boys going "okay, I've had enough of this" (and, with faction mods on, it also addresses the weirdness of the player being the only one with agency to crush pirate markets), but it does kind of turn the pirates and pathers into Just Another Faction That People Beat Up.
Yeah, pretty much this.

Yeah, while I like the Hegemony more than most people, the fact that they somehow allied with the Persean League and now all resistance is futile only a couple years into the game kinda kills the whole warring sector idea...
I think I'll tweak the diplomacy settings to make it harder (or outright impossible, if I get mad enough) for Hegemony and League to ally.

(If it does happen it would be pretty much a 'win condition' in lore terms, but there are reasons it has yet to actually happen in the Sector's history...)

Experiencing a bug where I don't get a warning about incoming invasion fleets. I get a warning with a distinct sound for expeditions, but when another faction is attacking my colony in order to take it over I get nothing, so I have no opportunity to defend myself.

Its possible that there's a standard notification popping up, but given the sheer volume of notifications generated by unrelated activity its impossible to read them all.
Hmm, it plays an extremely distinct sound (sounds/nexerelin/sfx_interface/alarm.wav, used only for invasions) when an invasion is pending against a player colony.
However, only the regular intel sound plays when the invasion is targeted at the player's commissioning faction. I should change that, probably to the vanilla expedition sound.

It isn't a critical issue, but there's some built-in supply and demand strangeness in the base game, insofar as the Luddic Path and several Pirate locations have permanent shortfalls of primarily supplies and fuel (which provides permanent, guaranteed profits), while the High Command at Sindria means that there's also a permanent supply shortage there, as well.

Are there any thoughts about mitigating these by e.g. adding a Gamma Core to Sindria and providing a Heavy Industries to one of the Luddic Path markets?
Yeah, might do stuff along those lines! (Not sure about heavy industry for Path, I'll probably instead try to make their accessibility not terrible so that they can actually import stuff they need)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:00:48 PM by Histidine »
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4049 on: July 22, 2021, 10:47:22 PM »

It is also worth noting that a few of the most popular mods help ablate this - Kadur Remnant gives the pirates a size six space megacity with light and heavy industry that gives them a lot of the production they need, and HMI includes a whole mess of Luddic planets that helps them out a lot. So it varies depending on the mods you use.

Still, for vanilla it might help, though even in VANILLA vanilla Chalcedon is always kind of a guaranteed moneymaker.
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