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Author Topic: [0.97a] Nexerelin v0.11.1b "Clausewitz Protocol" (update 2024-02-11)  (Read 3014197 times)

Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4035 on: July 21, 2021, 01:31:32 PM »

The big thing with pirate invasions is that 1) in-lore it's not really supposed to be how they operate (though installing a lot of faction mods often really balloons out the number of pirate markets and thus makes them disproportionately big) 2) the gear and building options available to pirates usually suck, so they can get steamrolled by bigger factions really easily, who then add that market power to what they already have making them more obnoxious to fight against, and 3) because pirates are hostile to 90% of factions and are restricted from making peace, if they are invasion-enabled they tend to distract everyone from making war on each other.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have on, and you can even flip it off and on as you wish if you want to have periods of the big boys going "okay, I've had enough of this" (and, with faction mods on, it also addresses the weirdness of the player being the only one with agency to crush pirate markets), but it does kind of turn the pirates and pathers into Just Another Faction That People Beat Up.

ahh I see thanks for that in-depth analysis and insight I was thinking about setting allowpinvasions to true because I wanted the pirates to be able to attempt capturing colonies after they have been completely wiped out by me or assisting them if I am allied with them. I am fearful that if I wipe them out they won't exist anymore to invade thus making them extinct in a way but I was curious how they respawned back if they can't invade anyhow.
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idiotekque

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4036 on: July 21, 2021, 02:28:54 PM »

I really don't like the "victory" conditions, at least for the AI.

Being told [Insert Hegemony alliance here] is too big and all other factions will fade into irrelevance is just... annoying. Especially when I know that if I keep playing that won't happen.

This happened about a month into the game for me, lol. Pack it up boys, Hegemony wins.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4037 on: July 21, 2021, 04:05:04 PM »

well, family IS always more powerful
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

capshades

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4038 on: July 21, 2021, 05:58:45 PM »

Yeah, while I like the Hegemony more than most people, the fact that they somehow allied with the Persean League and now all resistance is futile only a couple years into the game kinda kills the whole warring sector idea...
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DownTheDrain

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4039 on: July 21, 2021, 07:18:04 PM »

I usually console command faction relations before they get silly.
Not just to prevent super coalitions that go against the lore but also to boost smaller mod factions.
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Kossilar

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4040 on: July 22, 2021, 11:11:54 AM »

Experiencing a bug where I don't get a warning about incoming invasion fleets. I get a warning with a distinct sound for expeditions, but when another faction is attacking my colony in order to take it over I get nothing, so I have no opportunity to defend myself.

Its possible that there's a standard notification popping up, but given the sheer volume of notifications generated by unrelated activity its impossible to read them all.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 11:15:44 AM by Kossilar »
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Kiddin Me

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4041 on: July 22, 2021, 04:03:41 PM »

It isn't a critical issue, but there's some built-in supply and demand strangeness in the base game, insofar as the Luddic Path and several Pirate locations have permanent shortfalls of primarily supplies and fuel (which provides permanent, guaranteed profits), while the High Command at Sindria means that there's also a permanent supply shortage there, as well.

Are there any thoughts about mitigating these by e.g. adding a Gamma Core to Sindria and providing a Heavy Industries to one of the Luddic Path markets?
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4042 on: July 22, 2021, 09:36:49 PM »

EDIT: add first point

TL DR what are the related affects when set to true? For allowpinvasion.
It lets pirates have ceasefires with other factions, and join alliances. Also a few minor things (like Nex raids will affect pirate markets in the target system).

The big thing with pirate invasions is that 1) in-lore it's not really supposed to be how they operate (though installing a lot of faction mods often really balloons out the number of pirate markets and thus makes them disproportionately big) 2) the gear and building options available to pirates usually suck, so they can get steamrolled by bigger factions really easily, who then add that market power to what they already have making them more obnoxious to fight against, and 3) because pirates are hostile to 90% of factions and are restricted from making peace, if they are invasion-enabled they tend to distract everyone from making war on each other.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have on, and you can even flip it off and on as you wish if you want to have periods of the big boys going "okay, I've had enough of this" (and, with faction mods on, it also addresses the weirdness of the player being the only one with agency to crush pirate markets), but it does kind of turn the pirates and pathers into Just Another Faction That People Beat Up.
Yeah, pretty much this.

Yeah, while I like the Hegemony more than most people, the fact that they somehow allied with the Persean League and now all resistance is futile only a couple years into the game kinda kills the whole warring sector idea...
I think I'll tweak the diplomacy settings to make it harder (or outright impossible, if I get mad enough) for Hegemony and League to ally.

(If it does happen it would be pretty much a 'win condition' in lore terms, but there are reasons it has yet to actually happen in the Sector's history...)

Experiencing a bug where I don't get a warning about incoming invasion fleets. I get a warning with a distinct sound for expeditions, but when another faction is attacking my colony in order to take it over I get nothing, so I have no opportunity to defend myself.

Its possible that there's a standard notification popping up, but given the sheer volume of notifications generated by unrelated activity its impossible to read them all.
Hmm, it plays an extremely distinct sound (sounds/nexerelin/sfx_interface/alarm.wav, used only for invasions) when an invasion is pending against a player colony.
However, only the regular intel sound plays when the invasion is targeted at the player's commissioning faction. I should change that, probably to the vanilla expedition sound.

It isn't a critical issue, but there's some built-in supply and demand strangeness in the base game, insofar as the Luddic Path and several Pirate locations have permanent shortfalls of primarily supplies and fuel (which provides permanent, guaranteed profits), while the High Command at Sindria means that there's also a permanent supply shortage there, as well.

Are there any thoughts about mitigating these by e.g. adding a Gamma Core to Sindria and providing a Heavy Industries to one of the Luddic Path markets?
Yeah, might do stuff along those lines! (Not sure about heavy industry for Path, I'll probably instead try to make their accessibility not terrible so that they can actually import stuff they need)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:00:48 PM by Histidine »
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4043 on: July 22, 2021, 10:47:22 PM »

It is also worth noting that a few of the most popular mods help ablate this - Kadur Remnant gives the pirates a size six space megacity with light and heavy industry that gives them a lot of the production they need, and HMI includes a whole mess of Luddic planets that helps them out a lot. So it varies depending on the mods you use.

Still, for vanilla it might help, though even in VANILLA vanilla Chalcedon is always kind of a guaranteed moneymaker.
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Kiddin Me

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4044 on: July 23, 2021, 09:01:39 PM »

Yeah, might do stuff along those lines! (Not sure about heavy industry for Path, I'll probably instead try to make their accessibility not terrible so that they can actually import stuff they need)

The fix for Sindria seems super easy (while also making them a little less paper-tiger-y for people playing Vanilla-ish): add an Alpha Core to their High Command.

It fixes the weird fuel idiosyncrasy, while also beefing up their single-system dictatorial microstate feeling.

(I know that this gives people another alpha core to steal, in theory, but that's already happened by adding them to Tri-Tach.)
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4045 on: July 24, 2021, 08:10:08 AM »

So just to be clear, the "story victory" is as definitive as any other victory, right? Like if I clear the story, conquest for victory et al. won't be tracked anymore?
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4046 on: July 25, 2021, 12:35:58 AM »

So just to be clear, the "story victory" is as definitive as any other victory, right? Like if I clear the story, conquest for victory et al. won't be tracked anymore?
Yep!

(note that you can remove any existing victory with the ResetVictory console command; conquest/diplomacy victories will be reapplied if their conditions are met, but story one won't)
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Fuzzatron

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4047 on: July 25, 2021, 05:57:47 AM »

I have big problems with the Vulture Scavengers (which I believe are added by Nex, if I'm wrong, by bad)

I don't have problems with opportunistic scavengers trying to muscle me out of debris fields, etc.; my issues are:

1. Killing them hurts my rep with the independents.  This is nonsensical.  The independents are, by definition, an unaffiliated, misc. category of peoples.  Why would they all care if I blow some random scavenger fleet?  Also, they were going to kill me for the scavenge too!  Why am I a bad guy for defending my own business and livelihood but when they do the same thing is "lawful."

2.  It's "lawful" because neutral pickets will join the fights on the scavengers side.  This is also nonsensical.

If this isn't making sense, let me tell you a story that happened to me this morning:

I'm TT and at war with the Heg.  I joined a fight between a couple Sindrian fast pickets and a Heg invasion force and saved all the Sindrians' lives.  A vulture scavenger fleet happened to be right there and claimed the debris field (literally the one from the battle I just won) and I had to fight them for it.  This is already ridiculous and unfun.  But then, the Sindarin pickets (whom I had just saved and were literally involved in the battle that created that debris field) all were willing to join the battle against me.  That is absolutely ridiculous, irrational nonsense.

Anyway, they're all dead and I glassed Volturn for good measure.  *** lobsters.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4048 on: July 27, 2021, 05:14:56 AM »

Well, you are killing a bunch of independents, they're going to notice that even if they don't become insta-hostile. (It's the same penalty in terms of code and the rep loss amount, as when you kill some random smuggler)

I can see how other fleets joining the fight on the scavs' side would be annoying, yeah (though non-Independent fleets should only join the scavs if that faction likes indies more than you for whatever reason).
I have a notion to disable fleets from joining either side in a battle with scavengers, the idea being that if two groups of people want to kill each other over some debris that's a "them" problem that the third parties don't want to touch.
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4049 on: July 27, 2021, 06:49:04 AM »

I mean, the real problem here is that what it should really call for is a certain granularity that the current game engine isn't quite set up to do; if you and some vultures get into a fight over battle salvage in Hege space, for example, the response of the local Heggies should be to warn both combatants to knock it the f*** off or they'll be engaged, and then to enter a three-way battle if you and the other guy insist. But the current scripting doesn't support, well, a whole shedload of that, so Histidine has had to make do with what can be done in the current engine.

In general I understand the gameplay purpose of the vultures; they're there to make big fleet battles in which you are neutral less loot-pinata-y. Even as it stands it's possible to vulture scavenge your own way to some killer fleets without even having to explore much, and the NPC vultures just help provide some pressure and make you think a bit about how to best get your hands on some hardware (and potentially risk local po-po getting annoyed at you running silent or whatnot). I definitely understand the frustration of being there first and then the NPCs roll up and assert this is THEIR salvage, though, or your indep standing having no relation to how they react to you.
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