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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)  (Read 1686582 times)

TerranEmpire

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Hi!

I completely agree, and I also mentioned that the required troop numbers might have to grow.
I think there are two distinct mechanics in play, though.
First IRL (if we had achieved FTLtravel, etc), smaller size colonies might look more like military outposts, so they might even have a very high percentage of the population as weapon-bearers. Like some kind of frontier. (I mean size 3 or 4)

Second, historically most of the established states with sustainable economies had a troops/population ratio of about 1-2% at most.
Even the Roman Empire had ~500k troops (half of them legionaries) for 50 million pops.

However today the ratio of troops/pops has fallen significantly since equipment and training costs are sky-high. I think it's safe to assume that these trends are going to continue.
So it might be a good guess to say that a size 5 economically profitable planet has a few thousand troops at most.
Simultaneously I have the impression that most of the size 6 or 7 countries today, have size 4 and 5 armies =D (sorry, but using magnitudes is so convenient).
We only have one size 8 planet, so it might be tricky to give troop numbers here. I have a strong impression that Chicomoztoc is closer to size 7 than size 9, maybe with around 200 million pops.
If that's the case I think a size 5 army is good for it, too.

The relevant question is how much survives a tactical bombardment?
I have a strong feeling that a good tactical bombardment reduces the ground troop levels by a magnitude.
In that case, size 5 planets would require size 2 troops to conquer, size 6 would require size 3, and size 7 or 8 should require size 4. Well, the latter would be a real logistical challenge, but I don't think this is a problem, since conquering a size 7 or 8 planets is the only way to have one, so the player should play a proper price.

Disabling the stabilization mechanic is a good idea since if I recall correctly, a low stability planet is not profitable.

The reason why I think some kind of constant deteriorating stability would be nice in addition is that having no revenue from a planet only represents the unwillingness of the local population. Having to pay to upkeep an occupation should financially limit how many planets you should be able to conquer.
But to avoid micromanagement I think this monthly occupation fee should be automatic like the monthly growth incentive button.
The bottom line is if you have no "constant deterioration unless constant payment" mechanism, the player could conquer as many planets as he so chooses, while I think uncontrolled expansion should lead to very serious consequences.
On the other hand, having to pay constant attention via selling marines to stabilize, etc, creates babysitting and kills the fun. So I would recommend against requiring the player to supply the local government.

You are entirely correct about the current defense strength. Also, I wish to point out that if you can disable the stabilize-for-credits mechanic, you can achieve similar effects as I suggested with the rebellion mechanism. The only real difference is by adding a new rebellion modifier as a  function of size, etc, you can fine-tune the occupation fee for each planet size both in magnitude and duration.
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Floorc

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?
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Helldiver

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The current level of ease in conquest makes one wonder why the Sector, or at least the small indie worlds, aren't already completely controlled by the Hegemony or various warlords.

Hell even the bigger worlds! Once you've got just 3 Mudskippers' or one Nebula's worth of marines and a tanker you can just click>tac bomb>click>invade most planets in a row. At that point rebellions don't matter because the damage is already done (both damage in gameplay and damage to immersion).

btw excited to see what the GUI map for fleet request/operative mission orders is like.
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Flacman3000

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?

Go to comms and speak with any individual and click transfer market to another faction something like that.
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Ryzen 7 2700x, 1080ti, 16GB DDR4 RAM and playing SS on a SSD - Always stay ahead because when you're ahead you're rear anatomy is open to interpretation.

Floorc

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?

Go to comms and speak with any individual and click transfer market to another faction something like that.

Found that option, but it seems I can transfer it to any faction except the one I'm trying to give it to.

https://imgur.com/a/HTvR7LV
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TerranEmpire

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The current level of ease in conquest makes one wonder why the Sector, or at least the small indie worlds, aren't already completely controlled by the Hegemony or various warlords.

Hell even the bigger worlds! Once you've got just 3 Mudskippers' or one Nebula's worth of marines and a tanker you can just click>tac bomb>click>invade most planets in a row. At that point rebellions don't matter because the damage is already done (both damage in gameplay and damage to immersion).

btw excited to see what the GUI map for fleet request/operative mission orders is like.

That's why I think besides harder invasions, we need a lot stronger resistance to occupation. Many (most) strategy games make this mistake. IRL creating an empire is not just about conquest, it's about unification, pacification, etc...

If you only raise the required troop levels, the game would still be about map painting. Yes, you have to use more troops, but at this point, they are just a bigger one-time expanse...
However, if we add some kind of resistance mechanism that really controls your (and the AIs) expansion, that would fix the immersion-breaking, at least for me.
Without strong resistance, you could still blitzkrieg the Hegemony, only this time you would need like 20k marines (basically 6 starliners if you stockpile your troops at an independent planet in advance). I know that it SOUNDS expensive, but it's only 4 Onslaught XIV...
However, with stronger resistance, you could no longer rush, because no matter your initial reserves, the occupation costs would bankrupt you, resulting in a general uprising, and ultimately you are back to square one.
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Flacman3000

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?

Go to comms and speak with any individual and click transfer market to another faction something like that.

Found that option, but it seems I can transfer it to any faction except the one I'm trying to give it to.

https://imgur.com/a/HTvR7LV

who are you trying to give it too? some factions do not have campaign layer integration Example: Cabal.
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Ryzen 7 2700x, 1080ti, 16GB DDR4 RAM and playing SS on a SSD - Always stay ahead because when you're ahead you're rear anatomy is open to interpretation.

Floorc

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?

Go to comms and speak with any individual and click transfer market to another faction something like that.

Found that option, but it seems I can transfer it to any faction except the one I'm trying to give it to.

https://imgur.com/a/HTvR7LV

who are you trying to give it too? some factions do not have campaign layer integration Example: Cabal.
Sorry for not making it clear lol, the Anarakis Reparations Society.
I'm guessing what you said applies to them though because I started a quick test campaign as the Luddic church, settled a colony and was able to hand it over to them and acquire governorship.
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Helldiver

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That's why I think besides harder invasions, we need a lot stronger resistance to occupation. Many (most) strategy games make this mistake. IRL creating an empire is not just about conquest, it's about unification, pacification, etc...

If you only raise the required troop levels, the game would still be about map painting. Yes, you have to use more troops, but at this point, they are just a bigger one-time expanse...
However, if we add some kind of resistance mechanism that really controls your (and the AIs) expansion, that would fix the immersion-breaking, at least for me.
Without strong resistance, you could still blitzkrieg the Hegemony, only this time you would need like 20k marines (basically 6 starliners if you stockpile your troops at an independent planet in advance). I know that it SOUNDS expensive, but it's only 4 Onslaught XIV...
However, with stronger resistance, you could no longer rush, because no matter your initial reserves, the occupation costs would bankrupt you, resulting in a general uprising, and ultimately you are back to square one.

I'm all for more difficulty in keeping control of an invaded world after the fact (definitely a big part of making conquest a real challenge and more believable) but I don't think that increasing the difficulty of the invasion itself should be disregarded. Even if an uprising is succesful and you lose control, you are not actually back to square one as you say - the colony is in a much worse state afterwards. If invasion itself is too easy, you can mess up worlds one after the other by invading them and letting the rebels regain control of the now ruined colony. It also affects believability as I mention in my previous post - that even if a big faction can retake control shortly after, that an upstart like the player can seize their big colony so easily in the first place.
I think that the 20k marines that you mention are still a big impovement of the few hundred currently required in terms of believability (and making early game invasion spam less easy) !

If I can give a suggestion, I also think that spamming marines should have more diminishing returns (or some other change) in increasing your ground power, so that other options (Ground Support ships, higher Marine experience levels, gradually weakening a colony, more Heavy Armaments proportional to Marines etc) should be more of a requirement to invade big worlds alongside having many Marines instead of just Marine numbers being enough.
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Hague

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How about using the autonomy system from EU 4 to represent control. Make the value of autonomy start high, limiting how much benefit the player gets out of the colony and it slowly reduces as your faction gains control. The player should be forced to maintain not only marine complement on the planet but crew, as well, to represent the civil work force you'd need to have to change gov't apparatus to be amenable to you, at least enough "loyalists" to keep an eye on people you're hiring. Gotta remember that population of colonies scales by powers of ten a size 6 colony is over a million which you could capture with a decent host. A pop 9 colony hosts billions and would definitely need a massive ground force to seize total control and would almost certainly require collaborators on the ground to take control. Would get pretty unwieldy for the player to bring a million marines to capture the planet.

As for invasions, it seems like the the process should take some actual time outside just a few clicks in a menu. The player should be forced to linger in orbit a few days while the ground force combat stages happen. This should open the player up to attacks and potential harassment by a relief force. This would give the player a lot more time to respond to a invasion that occurs against them too.
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TerranEmpire

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I agree with everything you said.
I think raising the required amount of troops is necessary.
However, I also think, that raising the occupation cost is imperative, too.
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Histidine

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Quick question, sorry if it's been asked before.

How do I make it so when starting a colony on an uninhabited planet it goes to my starting faction instead of starting my own faction?
Go to comms and speak with any individual and click transfer market to another faction something like that.
Found that option, but it seems I can transfer it to any faction except the one I'm trying to give it to.

https://imgur.com/a/HTvR7LV
who are you trying to give it too? some factions do not have campaign layer integration Example: Cabal.
Sorry for not making it clear lol, the Anarakis Reparations Society.
I'm guessing what you said applies to them though because I started a quick test campaign as the Luddic church, settled a colony and was able to hand it over to them and acquire governorship.
Yeah, in non-random sector ARS is ineligible for colony transfers. If they somehow get a regular colony (through console or some other method), they'll abandon it within a few days.
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Hague

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If autonomy is made scaling, maybe it would be possible to set it so the player can build things at a colony at a higher autonomy rates but cannot deconstruct anything until they have more control of the colony. This would prevent the looting. To effectively dismantle an entire industry on a world the player would need the support of the workers or at least enough of them.
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envenger

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I would like to suggest something here, not sure if its the right place.

It feels incredibly easy to invade a planet once you have enough resources.
Not that we have the functionality of building connections with NPCs of the planet, why not sure that as a way of invasion?

If you have majority support of a planet's NPCs, you can take over the planet onces there are no defenders. Else it would be in a constant state of flux until the NPCs either support you or they leave the planet and one from your factions takes over it.
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Warnoise

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When you gift a faction a colony, do they attempt to build industries in it?

I gifted a faction a colony but even after months passed they didn't attempt to build anything in it.
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