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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Nexerelin v0.10.3i "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-12-17)  (Read 1915137 times)

Dreamyr

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9d "War, War Never Changes" (update 2019-02-09)
« Reply #1980 on: February 12, 2019, 10:18:53 AM »

It was 5 Persean grand invasion fleets. What really screwed me over was I also got hit the with bug that limits me to 200 deployment points so I couldn't even deploy my big ships. The link below should get you my save. I've never needed to use Googledrive before so hopefully I got it right.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O_l3AQDyzWLlxjBawPTO5Xa_L-OdUoek

Also, I'm using a massive list of mods aside from Nex. I'll go ahead and list them all just in case:

Spoiler
Arsenal Expansnio 1.5.3c
Autosave 1.1
Combat Chatter 1.9.2
Common Radard 2.5
Console Commands 3.0
Dassault Mikoyan 0.9.9e
Diable Avionics 2.02
Disassemble Reassemble 1.6.4
Fix all Empty Planets 1.0
Foundation of Borken 0.2.4-RC3
Lazylib 2.4b
Leading pip 1.8.3
MagicLib 0.22
Neutrino Corporation 1.85-RC3
Nexerelin 0.9c
Oga Portrait Pack 1.1
Practice Targets 1.3
Scy Nation 1.53
Shadowyards 0.8.1
Ship/Weapons Pack 1.9.1
SpeedUp 0.5.1
Stop Gap Measures 0.71
Sylphon Rnd 0.9.3d
Tahlan Shipworks 0.3.3a
Tyrador Coalition 1.6.1c
Underworld 1.3.0b
Unknown Skies 0.30
Vesperon Combine 1.1.2
ZZ GraphicsLib 1.3.0
[close]

Though to be honest I doubt it's a mod conflict given that it was the vanilla factions that decided I wasn't allowed to have that planet. But again I'm no modder. Thanks for taking the time to look at this.
What is your battle size set to? If it is set to 500, then you getting 200 DP is not a bug since it sounds like you were super outnumbered. And in SS, the side with more ships gets more DP out of the battle size pool, up to 60% of it. Now if you had a battlestation as an ally, that can take up a large portion of your DP

It is set to 500 however given the enemy was fielding a half dozen capital ships plus a ton of cruisers and smaller that seems a little absurd that I would get LESS deployment points. Think about it, you are fighting more enemies so we're going to make the battle HARDER? that doesn't make sense to me. If it's not the bug I'd read about with the default battle size limit then it's still something that needs changed if that's the logic it's working off of.
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Euphytose

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1981 on: February 12, 2019, 10:58:14 AM »

It also doesn't make sense to me to be honest. The side that has less ships should have more DP.
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Shad

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9d "War, War Never Changes" (update 2019-02-09)
« Reply #1982 on: February 12, 2019, 11:10:06 AM »

It is set to 500 however given the enemy was fielding a half dozen capital ships plus a ton of cruisers and smaller that seems a little absurd that I would get LESS deployment points. Think about it, you are fighting more enemies so we're going to make the battle HARDER? that doesn't make sense to me. If it's not the bug I'd read about with the default battle size limit then it's still something that needs changed if that's the logic it's working off of.

It's default vanilla behaviour, not a bug. The larger fleet has up to a 3:2 advantage, depending on total FP.
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Unreal_One

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9d "War, War Never Changes" (update 2019-02-09)
« Reply #1983 on: February 12, 2019, 01:25:45 PM »

It is set to 500 however given the enemy was fielding a half dozen capital ships plus a ton of cruisers and smaller that seems a little absurd that I would get LESS deployment points. Think about it, you are fighting more enemies so we're going to make the battle HARDER? that doesn't make sense to me. If it's not the bug I'd read about with the default battle size limit then it's still something that needs changed if that's the logic it's working off of.

If you're outnumbered, you should feel outnumbered. The enemy being able to throw wave after wave of units at you wouldn't matter if you could destroy the waves as they appear.

edit: sorry to take part in this derail, since this isn't relevant to this mod the discussion should take place in a suggestion or discussion topic.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 06:24:43 PM by Unreal_One »
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Dreamyr

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9d "War, War Never Changes" (update 2019-02-09)
« Reply #1984 on: February 12, 2019, 03:34:05 PM »

It is set to 500 however given the enemy was fielding a half dozen capital ships plus a ton of cruisers and smaller that seems a little absurd that I would get LESS deployment points. Think about it, you are fighting more enemies so we're going to make the battle HARDER? that doesn't make sense to me. If it's not the bug I'd read about with the default battle size limit then it's still something that needs changed if that's the logic it's working off of.

If you're outnumbered, you should feel outnumbered. The enemy being able to throw wave after wave of units at you wouldn't matter if you could destroy the waves as they appear.

I'm sorry but having a arbitrary limit is unrealistic and stupid. If I have the ships to deploy I should BE ABLE TO DEPLOY THEM.

I just had it happen again in my new game. Neutrino declares war on me. Shows up with something like 6 invasion fleets with something like close to 20 Hildofr's between them and can have 4 of them plus a Jackhammer on the field at once. There's no way to fight that and it's not fun.
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1985 on: February 12, 2019, 09:03:03 PM »

You want to bring this up with Alex in a fresh thread then, if you dislike the fact that outnumbered means outnumbered. It's not Nex's fault, it's how the vanilla game goes.
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Dreamyr

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1986 on: February 12, 2019, 10:08:59 PM »

As far as I'm aware the invasion fleet is very much a Nexerelin thing. Vanilla Starsector doesn't have invasion fleets that I know. I've been primarily talking about the issue with Nexerelin trying to treat me like Vegeta and stomp me in the *** and mentioned that the deployment cap wasn't helping in that regard. I then had people tell me that it arbitrarily limiting the ships I can deploy when the enemy fleet was under no such restriction was it working as intended. So the deployment cap comment was picked up by others when that was not the primary issue I was having.
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1987 on: February 13, 2019, 12:17:14 AM »

Apologies Dreamyr. My comment was aimed at anyone complaining about the deployment issues, not at the Nex invasion fleet discussion.

That said, if you want to be able to deploy every single ship you have? Knock the battlesize up waaaay higher. You can crank that thing in settings.json.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 12:18:49 AM by AxleMC131 »
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Thyrork

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1988 on: February 13, 2019, 05:50:47 AM »

Would it be possible to order the construction of a fleet to follow you for <X> days, in a similar way of putting in orders for base strikes and invasions?

Most thinking it'd be nice to order a custom sized fleet to have the set orders of following you around for a time (say, 60 days, or something that you assign with a slider?) if you want to go crack some REDACTED heads on the fringes of the galaxy.

E: As well as having the "Follow me!" command.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 05:53:42 AM by Thyrork »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1989 on: February 13, 2019, 06:10:53 AM »

Got around to looking at the save (thanks for uploading it!)

Seems the fleets are so big mainly because of the Star Fortress with alpha core. It's generating 189 FP of combat ships (before doctrine modifiers) to match the patrols from a size 4 High Command... and 870 for the station. Also, it turns out that contrary to my previous belief, alpha cored HT Star Fortress does not actually kill infinite ships.

I'm reducing the strength estimate multiplier for stations in the next version, by about 30%.

I then had people tell me that it arbitrarily limiting the ships I can deploy when the enemy fleet was under no such restriction was it working as intended.
Enemy obeys the fleet cap in the same way that player does.
You can increase the limit in settings as Axle suggests, if your CPU can handle it.

Would it be possible to order the construction of a fleet to follow you for <X> days, in a similar way of putting in orders for base strikes and invasions?

Most thinking it'd be nice to order a custom sized fleet to have the set orders of following you around for a time (say, 60 days, or something that you assign with a slider?) if you want to go crack some REDACTED heads on the fringes of the galaxy.
I could do something like that somewhere along the way, yeah. (I'd need to find a way to get the AI to follow the player reliably though, the Follow Me implementation is a bit of a mess)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 06:16:21 AM by Histidine »
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Thyrork

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1990 on: February 13, 2019, 06:17:58 AM »

I could do something like that somewhere along the way, yeah. (I'd need to find a way to get the AI to follow the player reliably though, the Follow Me implementation is a bit of a mess)

Neat. If nothing else the longer period of following might help smooth off the edges.
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Troika

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1991 on: February 13, 2019, 08:02:24 AM »

I probably shouldn't be able to turn a market over to the 9th Battlegroup.
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Unreal_One

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1992 on: February 13, 2019, 10:16:27 AM »

I probably shouldn't be able to turn a market over to the 9th Battlegroup.

That one is intentional by the mod that adds them.
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Dreamyr

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1993 on: February 13, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »

Got around to looking at the save (thanks for uploading it!)

Seems the fleets are so big mainly because of the Star Fortress with alpha core. It's generating 189 FP of combat ships (before doctrine modifiers) to match the patrols from a size 4 High Command... and 870 for the station. Also, it turns out that contrary to my previous belief, alpha cored HT Star Fortress does not actually kill infinite ships.

I'm reducing the strength estimate multiplier for stations in the next version, by about 30%.

I then had people tell me that it arbitrarily limiting the ships I can deploy when the enemy fleet was under no such restriction was it working as intended.
Enemy obeys the fleet cap in the same way that player does.
You can increase the limit in settings as Axle suggests, if your CPU can handle it.

Would it be possible to order the construction of a fleet to follow you for <X> days, in a similar way of putting in orders for base strikes and invasions?

Most thinking it'd be nice to order a custom sized fleet to have the set orders of following you around for a time (say, 60 days, or something that you assign with a slider?) if you want to go crack some REDACTED heads on the fringes of the galaxy.
I could do something like that somewhere along the way, yeah. (I'd need to find a way to get the AI to follow the player reliably though, the Follow Me implementation is a bit of a mess)

Thanks Histidine! And yea that makes sense. I hadn't bothered before to throw a core in the battlestation so that explains why I couldn't figure out what I'd done to cause it when I'd never had this problem while running Nex before. I wonder if the AI core has anything to do with the station refusing to upgrade from autopulse lasers as well even though I have other large energy weapons selected in the doctrine screen. That's probably something more to bring to Alex's attention though if it is happening. I may need to test that more.
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FreedomFighter

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Re: [0.9a] Nexerelin v0.9e "War, War Never Changes" (+fixes 2019-02-11)
« Reply #1994 on: February 13, 2019, 12:15:10 PM »

AI doesn't respect 30 ships per fleet rule as the player but still obey the deployment point in combat as the player.
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