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Author Topic: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3g "SpaceLand Battle" (fixes 2021-11-26)  (Read 1822617 times)

Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4185 on: October 19, 2021, 06:07:07 PM »

Judging from the log, a ship variant somewhere in the game has a fighter wing that doesn't exist (note that neither the hull nor the wing need to be defined as mining-capable). Don't know which one (though it's not in vanilla or Underworld, since I just tested with those two).

Copy and paste this into console mod to find the offender:
Code: java
runcode for (String variantId : Global.getSettings().getAllVariantIds()) {
ShipVariantAPI variant = Global.getSettings().getVariant(variantId);
for (String wing : variant.getWings()) {
FighterWingSpecAPI wingSpec = Global.getSettings().getFighterWingSpec(wing);
if (wingSpec == null) {
Console.showMessage(String.format("Fighter wing %s on %s does not exist", wing, variantId));
}
}
}
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Helldiver

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4186 on: October 20, 2021, 09:17:45 AM »

Judging from the log, a ship variant somewhere in the game has a fighter wing that doesn't exist (note that neither the hull nor the wing need to be defined as mining-capable). Don't know which one (though it's not in vanilla or Underworld, since I just tested with those two).

Copy and paste this into console mod to find the offender:
Code: java
stuff

That command was perfect, found the affected files instantly!  Is there a list/compendium of other useful troubleshooting commands like this one somewhere (couldn't find one in modding articles on Starsector wiki) ? This is a godsend.
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Nex is life, and my helm is pointier than yours!

renegade_sock

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4187 on: October 21, 2021, 04:16:01 AM »

Hey does anybody know how economies work with AI factions?

Like if i give a dope ass planet to my allies, would they even benefit in any tangible way? Likewise, does a high hazard rating even matter for AI factions?

Cheers
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Weftin

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4188 on: October 21, 2021, 02:00:29 PM »

Hey does anybody know how economies work with AI factions?

Like if i give a dope ass planet to my allies, would they even benefit in any tangible way? Likewise, does a high hazard rating even matter for AI factions?

Cheers

As far as I am aware very much so yes. Every planet requires and produces commodities, if the requirement for upkeep isn't met the colony suffers for it, AI or not. But since high hazard ratings only affect the credit upkeep I'm not certain how that affects an AI faction.

SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4189 on: October 21, 2021, 05:17:26 PM »

Availability of production resources in particular is absolutely relevant to AI players; it's why the Hege and the League are such gorillas, because they have so much heavy industry and each has access to a Pristine Nanoforge. Market size also helps.

It's why Hege invasion fleets are always enormous at first, while someone like Sindria or a number of more conservative mod factions struggle to put big invasions together.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4190 on: October 22, 2021, 06:53:05 AM »

That command was perfect, found the affected files instantly!  Is there a list/compendium of other useful troubleshooting commands like this one somewhere (couldn't find one in modding articles on Starsector wiki) ? This is a godsend.
Avanitia on the Discord server maintains a pastebin of a few console commands here.
I have some runcodes written down for my own use, though I often write new ones from scratch if I need to debug a new thing (for myself or someone else).

Hey does anybody know how economies work with AI factions?

Like if i give a dope ass planet to my allies, would they even benefit in any tangible way? Likewise, does a high hazard rating even matter for AI factions?
Production of ship parts, supplies, fuel and marines help NPC factions for generating some fleets in Nex (invasions in particular).
Also shortages on specific planets can cause local problems, usually a stability loss.
NPCs don't use credits though. (Maybe they should, for some purposes at least)
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TerranEmpire

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4191 on: October 23, 2021, 02:45:55 PM »

Hi Histidine!

What's next for the mod?
Do you have any current plans, new mechanics, or something similar in mind?

(Btw very pleased to play your mod, excellent work)
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4192 on: October 24, 2021, 06:24:06 PM »

Hi Histidine!

What's next for the mod?
Do you have any current plans, new mechanics, or something similar in mind?

(Btw very pleased to play your mod, excellent work)
Hi and thanks!

The immediate next update will bring NPC invasions into the new ground battle mechanic, and do a bunch of other smaller changes.

After that, I haven't decided what big-ticket item I want to do next. A detailed diplomacy system (with things like player bargaining directly with the factions) is one of the candidates, but it seems really complicated right now, and I may wait to see what Alex does with late game colonies.
I might just put that stuff off and clean up the smaller things on that long list of ideas that me or others have come up with over the years)
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boogiebogus

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4193 on: October 25, 2021, 08:25:52 AM »

On the topic of NPC invasions, I've had some trouble with assisting them in-system, especially when the target planet has no orbital station. They always try to go for a cloud of tiny fast pickets that don't have enough total power to actually start an engagement, so they sort of just spam emergency burn and distract the invasion fleets. Maybe it would be better to make invasion fleets drop everything and beeline for their target?

Also, I find it pretty strange that they go dark once they get close. There's just about no point to this except delaying the start of the space battle (which i suppose is a good thing if you're defending... but then again, with NPCs getting land battles too there's gonna be a considerable window to stop them anyway)
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4194 on: October 25, 2021, 12:57:58 PM »

Hi Histidine!

What's next for the mod?
Do you have any current plans, new mechanics, or something similar in mind?

(Btw very pleased to play your mod, excellent work)
Hi and thanks!

The immediate next update will bring NPC invasions into the new ground battle mechanic, and do a bunch of other smaller changes.

After that, I haven't decided what big-ticket item I want to do next. A detailed diplomacy system (with things like player bargaining directly with the factions) is one of the candidates, but it seems really complicated right now, and I may wait to see what Alex does with late game colonies.
I might just put that stuff off and clean up the smaller things on that long list of ideas that me or others have come up with over the years)

Perhaps instead of dealing with a better/more complex diplomacy system (which is sorely needed, but seems like something Alex gonna deal with eventually anyway), you could adapt the ground battle mechanic into just normal raid system, so stealing stuff has a more in-depth feel.  But then again, procedure-generating random "smallish" map "mazes" for raids could have issues attempting to assign more localized defenses using the abstract planetary defense stats (how much of any part of the defenses is assigned to one industry might be prioritized by importance of industry, which game already basically does, but assigning custom levels of defenses to one-off raid quests that aren't against faction owning planet might be hard to determine how much defense to use).  But using the security codes option to skip part of the "maze" would be cool (and/or player or officer can use certain random skills to get around certain obstacles, like Electronic warfare gives a chance of hacking anyway but you might get caught, while Helmsmanship reduces pre-mission detection so raid not on high alert when player "arrives," etc.).

Then again, maybe just allowing a player to raid a planet (with caps for max amount gained without rep loss or something) but skip fighting space station battle if fleet has small sensor profile AND/OR isn't too big might be faster and easier... although without some sort of alternative mini-game, skipping space station battle would effectively neuter a significant portion of the game experience (hence why caps are suggested).

Mostly just want an actual use for buying security codes option (which, unrelated, seem weirdly underpriced most of the time.  Be cool to sometimes have the underpriced security codes sometimes backfire on player, but overpriced backfires generate a mission to track down the wretched scum that sold you bum codes).

Edit:  Thought of this after posting, but seems better to add here than repost.  Alternatively, you could try expanding bounty system to more include player as a possible bounty, which seems right now to only to generate bounty hunters to hunt player after failing certain missions or not repaying loans.  Basically, bounty hunters would be a bridge between player's low faction rep levels; so before having vengeance fleets spawn, factions that don't like you can put a bounty on you.  Would be cool to see a more centralized bounty listing that you can climb up or down on (a la Big Shots TV show from Cowboy Bebop), but conversely whatever bounties that are generated by contacts give MUCH more rep for faction (since bounty generating system is weird, tiered generation so player always has a challenge).  Dunno how much of a memory issue would result from maintaining a bounty list (prolly no more than Top 10 or Top 20, 100 bounties plus fleets to keep track of might be a real memory hog).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 01:10:08 PM by slowpersun »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4195 on: October 27, 2021, 05:03:57 AM »

On the topic of NPC invasions, I've had some trouble with assisting them in-system, especially when the target planet has no orbital station. They always try to go for a cloud of tiny fast pickets that don't have enough total power to actually start an engagement, so they sort of just spam emergency burn and distract the invasion fleets. Maybe it would be better to make invasion fleets drop everything and beeline for their target?

Also, I find it pretty strange that they go dark once they get close. There's just about no point to this except delaying the start of the space battle (which i suppose is a good thing if you're defending... but then again, with NPCs getting land battles too there's gonna be a considerable window to stop them anyway)
Invasion fleets try to go straight for the target, but I'm guessing this isn't entirely working. If I get the chance later, I'll examine what they're doing more closely.

The going dark is indeed odd behavior, though it hasn't been significant enough for me to want to track down.

Perhaps instead of dealing with a better/more complex diplomacy system (which is sorely needed, but seems like something Alex gonna deal with eventually anyway), you could adapt the ground battle mechanic into just normal raid system, so stealing stuff has a more in-depth feel.  But then again, procedure-generating random "smallish" map "mazes" for raids could have issues attempting to assign more localized defenses using the abstract planetary defense stats (how much of any part of the defenses is assigned to one industry might be prioritized by importance of industry, which game already basically does, but assigning custom levels of defenses to one-off raid quests that aren't against faction owning planet might be hard to determine how much defense to use).  But using the security codes option to skip part of the "maze" would be cool (and/or player or officer can use certain random skills to get around certain obstacles, like Electronic warfare gives a chance of hacking anyway but you might get caught, while Helmsmanship reduces pre-mission detection so raid not on high alert when player "arrives," etc.).

Then again, maybe just allowing a player to raid a planet (with caps for max amount gained without rep loss or something) but skip fighting space station battle if fleet has small sensor profile AND/OR isn't too big might be faster and easier... although without some sort of alternative mini-game, skipping space station battle would effectively neuter a significant portion of the game experience (hence why caps are suggested).
You can already raid a market with the station up, as long as no fleets try to join the battle (although the station significantly increases ground defenses, so it's not recommended for any kind of high-difficulty operation). I also don't intend to do the work needed to change how raids work, they're frequent enough that I don't want to add significant complexity to them.

Edit:  Thought of this after posting, but seems better to add here than repost.  Alternatively, you could try expanding bounty system to more include player as a possible bounty, which seems right now to only to generate bounty hunters to hunt player after failing certain missions or not repaying loans.  Basically, bounty hunters would be a bridge between player's low faction rep levels; so before having vengeance fleets spawn, factions that don't like you can put a bounty on you. Would be cool to see a more centralized bounty listing that you can climb up or down on (a la Big Shots TV show from Cowboy Bebop), but conversely whatever bounties that are generated by contacts give MUCH more rep for faction (since bounty generating system is weird, tiered generation so player always has a challenge).
Bounties on the player have already been implemented in Vayra's Sector :) (not officially updated for 0.95a, but a semi-official bootleg is circulating on the Discord server)

The idea of a bounty ladder is interesting, but right now there's not much in the modiverse to put it on except throwaway names. Though the Vayra's version could have a lifetime bounty record at least (number of times a bounty has been placed on the player, and their lifetime total).
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4196 on: October 27, 2021, 12:35:56 PM »

Perhaps instead of dealing with a better/more complex diplomacy system (which is sorely needed, but seems like something Alex gonna deal with eventually anyway), you could adapt the ground battle mechanic into just normal raid system, so stealing stuff has a more in-depth feel.  But then again, procedure-generating random "smallish" map "mazes" for raids could have issues attempting to assign more localized defenses using the abstract planetary defense stats (how much of any part of the defenses is assigned to one industry might be prioritized by importance of industry, which game already basically does, but assigning custom levels of defenses to one-off raid quests that aren't against faction owning planet might be hard to determine how much defense to use).  But using the security codes option to skip part of the "maze" would be cool (and/or player or officer can use certain random skills to get around certain obstacles, like Electronic warfare gives a chance of hacking anyway but you might get caught, while Helmsmanship reduces pre-mission detection so raid not on high alert when player "arrives," etc.).

Then again, maybe just allowing a player to raid a planet (with caps for max amount gained without rep loss or something) but skip fighting space station battle if fleet has small sensor profile AND/OR isn't too big might be faster and easier... although without some sort of alternative mini-game, skipping space station battle would effectively neuter a significant portion of the game experience (hence why caps are suggested).
You can already raid a market with the station up, as long as no fleets try to join the battle (although the station significantly increases ground defenses, so it's not recommended for any kind of high-difficulty operation). I also don't intend to do the work needed to change how raids work, they're frequent enough that I don't want to add significant complexity to them.

Ah, is the logic behind raids bypassing station battles from your Nex mod, or is that actually vanilla and I never realized it?  Either way, clearly I haven't been raiding nearly as much as I could have been... perhaps that explains why I generally always gravitate towards smuggling in early game.  But I guess that if pickets and patrols around planets are necessary to trigger a space station battle, even more of a reason for some sort of decoy ability to be added to the game (although if not balanced properly, prolly would make game way 2 EZ!).
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TerranEmpire

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4197 on: October 29, 2021, 06:46:31 PM »

Hi Histidine!

Thanks for your answer. I've been thinking about a possible feature for a few months, and as far as I know, others have already mentioned it.
The feature in question is the Player Empire Special Task Groups.
If I recall it correctly, you've already said, that you like the idea, and the discussion was about the implementation.
Like we can only use ships we personally own and are in storage, and we have to pay upkeep for it.

I think this would be a nice little addition and a good way to emphasize that we are a part of the Sector, and playing by the same rules as others...
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Farya

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4198 on: October 30, 2021, 10:08:06 AM »

Seems like Peace Treaty event added the reputation TWICE here.
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ebolamorph

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)
« Reply #4199 on: October 30, 2021, 03:16:26 PM »

trying to do a planetary invasion just opens the intel screen. its broken the planetary conquest mechanic entirely
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