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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.3c "SpaceLand Battle" (update 2021-09-18)  (Read 1781152 times)

6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4020 on: July 15, 2021, 03:59:37 PM »

hey just out of curiosity, why is it that derelict empire doesnt spawn fleets from the derelict planets in the archean order total conversion?
everything else works fine
the new mod that adds derelict (and other) bounties spawns the derelict bounty fleets
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4021 on: July 15, 2021, 10:50:27 PM »

Is there some way to raise the threshold on the conquest victory? It feels like all the Persian League or Hegemony needs to do to win is capture 3 planets and make allies with one minor faction.
It's currently hardcoded. I might need to fiddle with the default in general, in addition to moving it to a config file.

Speaking of missions, there's... not really a bug as such, but a bit of what I think is an unintended design hiccup due to mod interaction.

So our friend N's first mission will send you to an independent planet to raid for a package. It seems like the indep planets are chosen because they tend to have low defense rating, usually well below 1k, so you only need like 250-350 marines, usually. This seems to be angled to make it so that it's not too onerous to get on N's plotline early if the player wants to go hard on that route. The problem, though, comes with certain mods (Arma is a prime example that I actually saw): there are some mods that include independent worlds that are close but not quite ready to be their own polity, and so are significantly militarily stronger than vanilla indep worlds. They can, however, still be chosen as a location for N's mission... so you need to spring the package from, say, New Meshan for the requirement of a cool 3,500 marines if you knock down no infrastructure (never mind managing to sneak up to such worlds). It is entirely possible to say "well that's rando for you", but it still feels a little... unintended and out of step with the likely intended progression of this agent/character.

So: would it be possible to add a check so that N's initial quest doesn't give you a target that requires more than, say, 500 marines? I think that'd help weirdness from occurring in some seeds.
Yeah, I'll probably have to write a custom filter for finding the appropriate indie market. Though the bribe option always works regardless of defense level, so there's that.

hey just out of curiosity, why is it that derelict empire doesnt spawn fleets from the derelict planets in the archean order total conversion?
everything else works fine
the new mod that adds derelict (and other) bounties spawns the derelict bounty fleets
Derelict Empire uses a separate faction (id nex_derelict instead of derelict) from regular derelicts, so I can mess with it without changing derelict encounters from things like probes. I'm not sure why there'd be an incompatibility with AO though, probably best if you discuss the issue with Morrokain.
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4022 on: July 15, 2021, 11:06:48 PM »

It is likely too early to bother asking, but since this mod adds [REDACTED] raids on the Core Worlds and the coming game update (0.95.1a?  0.95b?) will include a skill that might allow an officer to Neural Link to a recovered [REDACTED] ship, will the frequency of the [REDACTED] raids be dialed back?  I dunno what triggers them in the code, so it may not matter if multiple possible triggers.  Plus, seems like officers won't have access to the combo of [REDACTED] ship recovery AND neural Link (even Lvl 7 pod officers), only player will, rendering such a concern moot.  Still, figured I might as well ask.  Since otherwise there might end up being random core fleets with recovered [REDACTED] ships (although would be kinda cool to see rare salvage fleets with a few [REDACTED] frigates, maybe a destroyer).
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idiotekque

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4023 on: July 17, 2021, 07:33:03 AM »

Apologies if this has been mentioned or talked about before, but I am noticing that the war/peace declarations seem really wonky (not sure if it's just in newer versions or not, I don't seem to recall it being so all over the place in the past). I haven't gotten very far into my latest playthrough, and three or four times now, factions and alliances have made peace or agreed to ceasefires, just for them to declare war again (whether via alliance vote or otherwise) a week or so later.

There was one instance where the ceasefire was overwritten by a war declaration two days later. Not sure if it's intended or not, but it just seems a bit odd and minorly immersion breaking. If two factions are committing to some sort of political agreement of peace, and they broke the agreement, ceasefire, etc, a few days later, they would quickly become massively distrusted by just about everyone (which isn't happening). It feels like there needs to be some sort of system in place where these agreements last a reasonable length of time, or have a smaller chance to be overridden so incredibly quickly.
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Deshara

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4024 on: July 17, 2021, 09:44:12 AM »

There was one instance where the ceasefire was overwritten by a war declaration two days later.

art reflecting reality. it really do be like that tho
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4025 on: July 17, 2021, 12:18:03 PM »

Apologies if this has been mentioned or talked about before, but I am noticing that the war/peace declarations seem really wonky (not sure if it's just in newer versions or not, I don't seem to recall it being so all over the place in the past). I haven't gotten very far into my latest playthrough, and three or four times now, factions and alliances have made peace or agreed to ceasefires, just for them to declare war again (whether via alliance vote or otherwise) a week or so later.

There was one instance where the ceasefire was overwritten by a war declaration two days later. Not sure if it's intended or not, but it just seems a bit odd and minorly immersion breaking. If two factions are committing to some sort of political agreement of peace, and they broke the agreement, ceasefire, etc, a few days later, they would quickly become massively distrusted by just about everyone (which isn't happening). It feels like there needs to be some sort of system in place where these agreements last a reasonable length of time, or have a smaller chance to be overridden so incredibly quickly.

System for ceasefire/peace declarations seems to only be on a by faction basis, NOT a per alliance basis.  But calling a war vote is on an alliance basis.  So sometimes a faction that signs a ceasefire/peace agreement with you is quickly or even immediately pulled back into a war with you by an alliance partner calling for and winning a war vote.  Appears to mostly depend on you rep with all faction members of any particular alliance.

Can't tell if this is a true software bug by not having the peace treaty/ceasefire applied across an entire alliance, or whether this is just an unintended result.  Or maybe intended.  Basically you have to spend dat colony money on agents always raising your rep with any factions that hate you until you are either strong/rich enough to not care or have an alliance of your own... although since so much will be changing in a few months with 0.951ab being released, may not matter until after that!

Still, would be nice for agents to have a high risk mission to cause false flag diplomatic incidents to either weaken or break up alliances, since Hegemony always seems to immediately ally with Luddic Church or Persean League regardless of the in-game lore stating that each of the three "powers" fundamentally disagree with each of the other factions' philosophy/ethics/morals.  Although perhaps I'm playing this mod wrong, supposedly the main powers are less likely to ally with one another if you have a few extra faction adding mods...
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4026 on: July 17, 2021, 01:05:50 PM »

Also keep in mind that if an agent is discovered doing A Thing against a faction that recently signed a ceasefire with another, that can easily lead to another war scenario.
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idiotekque

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4027 on: July 17, 2021, 11:26:43 PM »

System for ceasefire/peace declarations seems to only be on a by faction basis, NOT a per alliance basis.  But calling a war vote is on an alliance basis.  So sometimes a faction that signs a ceasefire/peace agreement with you is quickly or even immediately pulled back into a war with you by an alliance partner calling for and winning a war vote.  Appears to mostly depend on you rep with all faction members of any particular alliance.

Can't tell if this is a true software bug by not having the peace treaty/ceasefire applied across an entire alliance, or whether this is just an unintended result.  Or maybe intended.  Basically you have to spend dat colony money on agents always raising your rep with any factions that hate you until you are either strong/rich enough to not care or have an alliance of your own... although since so much will be changing in a few months with 0.951ab being released, may not matter until after that!

Still, would be nice for agents to have a high risk mission to cause false flag diplomatic incidents to either weaken or break up alliances, since Hegemony always seems to immediately ally with Luddic Church or Persean League regardless of the in-game lore stating that each of the three "powers" fundamentally disagree with each of the other factions' philosophy/ethics/morals.  Although perhaps I'm playing this mod wrong, supposedly the main powers are less likely to ally with one another if you have a few extra faction adding mods...

Per faction/alliance diplomacy, that makes sense to an extent (even if it is still very wonky and too spastic in execution to feel immersive), but I have observed this happening outside of alliance completely as well (that two day instance I mentioned was purely between Tri-Tachyon and Hegemony).

To be more specific, none of these instances I'm seeing have been with my own faction, this has been within the first few cycles between AI factions, and it is just so incredibly all over the place.

Maybe I'm being too critical, which I am a bit too much with things I like a lot (this mod is fantastic). I just wish the war and peace dealings were somewhat more immersive and that there weren't multiple start and stop wars within the week oftentimes. It feels so all over the place sometimes that the factions just start to lose their personalities, and it's just mindless fluctuations.

Also keep in mind that if an agent is discovered doing A Thing against a faction that recently signed a ceasefire with another, that can easily lead to another war scenario.

This makes sense, absolutely. I've seen that happen here and there, but oddly enough (to this point at least), those haven't been the inciting factor of any conflicts, just reduced relations (that has obviously edged factions closer to war, or course).

In the end, my main point is just that I feel like actual declarations of war and peace should feel more meaningful and solid, as opposed to just flittering around by the week, back and forth.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4028 on: July 19, 2021, 04:42:57 AM »

Yeah, I probably ought to find a way to reduce war/peace flipping at some point.

For the non-alliance case, I've got a concept where diplomacy events (and perhaps agent actions and such) can't directly make the faction hostile, rather they accumulate an "outrage meter" (could use the existing diplomacy disposition for this). And when it gets high enough, it's up to the diplomacy AI (such as it is) to actually make the decision to go to war. Kinda like how 4X games do it.
Well, that'll probably come around the time I actually implement a high-level strategic AI for factions, which is a long way off at best... :-X

It is likely too early to bother asking, but since this mod adds [REDACTED] raids on the Core Worlds and the coming game update (0.95.1a?  0.95b?) will include a skill that might allow an officer to Neural Link to a recovered [REDACTED] ship, will the frequency of the [REDACTED] raids be dialed back?  I dunno what triggers them in the code, so it may not matter if multiple possible triggers.  Plus, seems like officers won't have access to the combo of [REDACTED] ship recovery AND neural Link (even Lvl 7 pod officers), only player will, rendering such a concern moot.  Still, figured I might as well ask.  Since otherwise there might end up being random core fleets with recovered [REDACTED] ships (although would be kinda cool to see rare salvage fleets with a few [REDACTED] frigates, maybe a destroyer).
I don't expect that NPCs will ever use [REDACTED] ships except for specific bespoke fleets, or that NPC fleets other than my own vulture scavengers (or any similar feature another mod implements) will do ship recovery, so it's unlikely I'll have to change anything. If not, I'll think about it then.

(It would be cool if the existing vanilla scavengers did make use of [REDACTED] ships, though)
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idiotekque

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4029 on: July 19, 2021, 11:26:48 PM »

Yeah, I probably ought to find a way to reduce war/peace flipping at some point.

For the non-alliance case, I've got a concept where diplomacy events (and perhaps agent actions and such) can't directly make the faction hostile, rather they accumulate an "outrage meter" (could use the existing diplomacy disposition for this). And when it gets high enough, it's up to the diplomacy AI (such as it is) to actually make the decision to go to war. Kinda like how 4X games do it.
Well, that'll probably come around the time I actually implement a high-level strategic AI for factions, which is a long way off at best... :-X

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I can imagine it is sort of a tough balance to find, between interesting, shifting developments between factions happening at a steady pace, and stagnancy. Personally, I do feel like the "random events", like failed deals, diplomatic blunders, etc randomly popping up are somewhat too frequent, and have too dramatic of an impact versus other things. For example, a player faction might take on a 200k+ bounty placed on a deserter for x faction, wipe out a massive fleet of battleships and cruisers, and net +3 rep. Two days later, a jilted lover or scandal takes place via RNG, and the faction loses 10+ rep through that.

While to some extent, that is always going to be unavoidable with a system like this, it does get a little groan-inducing at times (and if I'm trying to do more of an immersive, roleplay focused run, I may just wind up consoling the rep back to where it was). I don't really have a solution for that, so I don't mean to just sound like a whiner, it's just a thought on it all, and the bits that feel a little too spastic and all over the place. Even some variant version of the mod might be an interesting option, where faction shifts are just set to a much rarer, slower pace of random events like that. Not exactly a foolproof fix, but it might make faction relations feel a little more meaningful. Even alliances seem to fall prey to these frequent, dramatic shifts, where I've seen any number of different alliance configurations over the course of a couple cycles. Creating and breaking alliances, I would think, should be relatively dramatic and meaningful, as opposed to being forged, dissolved, etc, at a a relatively rapid pace.

At the very least, when I see ceasefires and whatnot happen, even the description for these events in the intel screen say something along the lines of "this will stay in place for x amount of time (150 days or something like that)", and I can say with certainty, that isn't the case in execution (like I mentioned before, I observed Hegemony and Tri-Tachyon agreeing to a ceasefire, neither within an alliance, and then going back to war 2 in game days later). If agreements like this did actually impose strict time limits, only breakable by very specific developments, it would go a long way towards making these political developments feeling that much more impactful.

Looking forward to seeing where things go, in any case. It really is a great mod, I appreciate the blood, sweat, and tears that go into it. :)
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4030 on: July 20, 2021, 03:34:55 AM »

Yeah, I can imagine it is sort of a tough balance to find, between interesting, shifting developments between factions happening at a steady pace, and stagnancy. Personally, I do feel like the "random events", like failed deals, diplomatic blunders, etc randomly popping up are somewhat too frequent, and have too dramatic of an impact versus other things. For example, a player faction might take on a 200k+ bounty placed on a deserter for x faction, wipe out a massive fleet of battleships and cruisers, and net +3 rep. Two days later, a jilted lover or scandal takes place via RNG, and the faction loses 10+ rep through that.

It is worth noting that, in exerelin_config at the top of the Nex folder in mods, there is a setting for turning off player faction "participation" in diplo events if they frustrate you too much. You'll want to look for "FollowersDiplomacy" and set that to "false".

(Note that in the same section, you can also enable your faction organizing invasions independent of you, if you so wish...  ;D)
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4031 on: July 20, 2021, 01:11:17 PM »

Still, would be nice for agents to have a high risk mission to cause false flag diplomatic incidents to either weaken or break up alliances, since Hegemony always seems to immediately ally with Luddic Church or Persean League regardless of the in-game lore stating that each of the three "powers" fundamentally disagree with each of the other factions' philosophy/ethics/morals.  Although perhaps I'm playing this mod wrong, supposedly the main powers are less likely to ally with one another if you have a few extra faction adding mods...

Yeah, I probably ought to find a way to reduce war/peace flipping at some point.

For the non-alliance case, I've got a concept where diplomacy events (and perhaps agent actions and such) can't directly make the faction hostile, rather they accumulate an "outrage meter" (could use the existing diplomacy disposition for this). And when it gets high enough, it's up to the diplomacy AI (such as it is) to actually make the decision to go to war. Kinda like how 4X games do it.
Well, that'll probably come around the time I actually implement a high-level strategic AI for factions, which is a long way off at best... :-X


Building on this idea, now that I am aware of the Kazeron Navarachy mod (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=21554.0) that basically gives a Persean League hull mod version of the Fourteenth Battlegroup hull mod for Hegemony, it would be cool to have false flag events occur if you openly raid using a fleet that is mostly or totally composed of the faction hullmod ship type.  Unlikely to happen directly without inter-mod support, but I guess then again, this mod can add an agent mission to basically achieve the same effect for money cost (ie, agent does mission, if successful then generates a 30-60-90 day window in which rep hit from raid will instead be assigned to another faction.  If mission fails, then player gets rep loss with one or BOTH factions!).  Thus, it would only be considered "free" if player assembles fleet with all or most of the faction hull mod instead, although doesn't seem to be a Sindrian Diktat skin, so wouldn't work perfectly; asteroid mod hull pack (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17871.0) could I guess be the skin for independents.  Dunno how other combined factions would slot in, but not impossible to include a framework if those mods want to slot in.

But I guess this should take a backseat to any sort of addition of an outrage parameter to the diplomatic AI.
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Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4032 on: July 21, 2021, 12:30:14 AM »

Hey Histidine, wanted to ask you what the parameter allowpirateinvasion in exrelin config means? Is it the ability for pirates to invade other factions to take colonies or is it the ability for factions to invade pirate colonies including ones from the start? Possibly stupid question.

Code
    "allowPirateInvasions": false,
    "retakePirateMarkets": true, # allow factions to invade markets that pirates currently hold but didn't at the start of the game, even if allowPirateInvasions is false

1a- If I wanted to make invasions appear more often (2 times more often) could I just cut the invasion grace period in half? I notice I invade more than factions which makes it so that I end up being the one colonizing everything for domination too quick.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:25:11 AM by Flacman3000 »
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Yunru

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4033 on: July 21, 2021, 12:41:45 AM »

Hey Histidine, wanted to ask you what the parameter allowpirateinvasion in exrelin config means? Is it the ability for pirates to invade other factions to take colonies or is it the ability for factions to invade pirate colonies including ones from the start?
I mean... you kinda quote your own answer. retakePirateMarkets allows invasion of select pirate worlds even if allowPirateInvasions is off.
Thus allowPirateInvasions must control whether you can invade a pirate market.

Flacman3000

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Re: [0.95a] Nexerelin v0.10.2c "Mercenaries and Patriots" (fixes 2021-06-12)
« Reply #4034 on: July 21, 2021, 01:02:56 AM »

Hey Histidine, wanted to ask you what the parameter allowpirateinvasion in exrelin config means? Is it the ability for pirates to invade other factions to take colonies or is it the ability for factions to invade pirate colonies including ones from the start?
I mean... you kinda quote your own answer. retakePirateMarkets allows invasion of select pirate worlds even if allowPirateInvasions is off.
Thus allowPirateInvasions must control whether you can invade a pirate market.

1- Forgive me (I am playing a pirate-oriented playthrough I don't want to come across as annoying) so I assume that my solution is to enable allowpirateinvasions so that even from the start pirate colonies get invaded which is exactly what I wanted but am currently wondering why specifically the pirates have these allow invasions switch set to false? does the ludic path have one also or is it literally up to the player to invade pirate-only starting markets? I've noticed pirates never invaded colonies per se in my game they exclusively only raid systems it that intentional?

2- Also, can anyone confirm whether editing parameters in the config gets updated in a current save, or do I need to make a new game?

3-
Code
"countPiratesForVictory": false,
Does this mean that if allied to pirates (player) no victory can be achieved if set to false?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 01:24:42 AM by Flacman3000 »
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