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[TJJ]

New vanilla game; for a challenge I'm trying to be friends with the pirates. (so am farming neutrals for cargo to sell to pirates/smuggle to major factions)

I have a small fleet atm; Enforcer + 2x Shepherds.
It's been bigger..... but.... well, mistakes were made. (running out of fuel in hyperspace when you're surrounded by huge enemy fleets = bad)
FYI I'm finding the Shepherd's drones to be great distractions, allowing my Enforcer to engage the enemy 1 at a time.

There's rather a shortage of useful ship hulls atm, so I thought I'd try out a carrier + fighters.
Went for the Heron as Sindria had a pile of them, and grabbed a few fighter wings to go with it.

However, I'm finding that they're simply never cost effective to deploy in small fleet engagements.
50+ supplies to deploy carrier + fighters is obscene, when their combat effectiveness is no greater than a destroyer + frigate.

What's more, I'm not sure what a viable loadout for the Heron is; it seems a really passive hardpoint loadout - not nearly as aggressive as the Odyssey.
This begs the question, if it's only useful in a fire support role, why would I take it over one or two Condors?

[SafariJohn]

Here's my Heron layout:

Spoiler

[close]

Although, since getting a Conquest I've switched out the Augmented Engines for Front Shield Emitter, Extended Shields, and more capacitors.

I'm 98% sure I haven't lost a Heron in any of my games, so it seems decent in AI hands. Even when they dive right into the thick of things


Basically, I don't pay attention to it and it doesn't die, so I find it's okay. That said, if you micro your carriers out of the battle and don't need a ship that can eat shots for you without dying, then two Condors have way more firepower and cost less to run.

[Schwartz]

With the recent Energy buffs, go all-out Tactical Lasers with the PD hullmod. Many viable options for the medium hardpoint, but I'd put a Ballistic weapon there for flux's sake.

Heron is twice as fast as a Condor and has almost 3x the flux dissipation. It's not a straight upgrade Logistics-wise but it's really a much more survivable package that makes a better flagship. Two AI carriers are either going to sit on the sidelines or get roasted.

The real competitor would be 2x Gemini anyway.

[Megas]

I use one of two options:  Heavy Mauler plus six tactical lasers (with IPDAI and Advanced Turret Gyros), or Heavy Blaster plus six PD lasers.  Now that Heron has peak performance, it is choice between Hardened Subsystems or one other very useful hullmod (or more vents).

[TJJ]

Cheers for the loadout suggestions from all of you.
I'd already adopted tactical lasers in the small slots, and will probably take IPDAI once I have the tech. The buff they've had has definitely elevated them from ok/good, to good/excellent.

What I was really torn on, is the universal mount:
- On one hand the ship doesn't have great dissipation, so the flux-free damage of missiles is tempting.
- On the flip-side, using a universal mount for anything but ballistics seems to me to be a waste.

Another direction I'd thought about, was to use the universal mount for PD (in the form of flak), and the small energy mounts for the DPS source.
Though small energy + DPS generally leads to antimatter blasters..... which are probably far too short range for a hull of this speed/size.

I think this is a square peg/round hole situation; I'm trying to force an aggressive loadout onto an ill equipped hull.

As to my 2nd point; any thoughts on carrier/fighter supply efficiency?
It seems to me that, for any engagement small enough for peak performance to not be a real concern, destroyers/frigates bring far more firepower than their equivalent supply cost in carriers/fighters.

[Megas]

Tactical lasers sometimes have trouble tracking without Advanced Turret Gyros.  If you cannot afford that (OP or flux usage), use PD Laser with Advanced Optics.  If you do not have Advanced Optics, four burst PD lasers at the front (and the back two mounts empty) will suffice.  As for universal, if you have tactical lasers, use Heavy Mauler.  It has the range to let you play keep away, and tactical lasers match it; and it does not use much flux.  If you want to fight up-close, use Heavy Blaster for DPS.  However, Tactical lasers use too much flux to work well with Heavy Blaster.  If you use Heavy Blaster, use more flux efficient PD.

[SafariJohn]

As to my 2nd point; any thoughts on carrier/fighter supply efficiency?
It seems to me that, for any engagement small enough for peak performance to not be a real concern, destroyers/frigates bring far more firepower than their equivalent supply cost in carriers/fighters.

If an engagement goes badly (and assuming you don't just save-scum), then you will take frigate/destroyer losses, but a fighter/carrier force only has to successfully retreat its carriers to save all its fighters, IIRC.

[Thaago]

If you are piloting it yourself then I think a heavy blaster in the universal is a must: even if I have to leave 3 small mounts with nothing in them, I'll put heavy blaster on for me. With a hb it has destroyer level speed and damage, which is good enough. The AI actually does reasonably well with it, though Mauler plus Broadsword Wings is also highly effective and less likely for it to get in a sticky situation.

I don't like the Reaper Launcher because Daggers. Without FMR the Reaper launcher can't get a 1-2 kill in like a frigate with 2 small mounts, either.

In terms of economics... its expensive. As are all fighter fleets, to be honest. For big battles they are great cause the fighters don't die, but the cost is high. I generally keep a couple lowish end frigates (Wolves, Lashers) in the fleet that I only deploy for small actions and cleanup fights so I don't blow all my supplies or get them popped in big battles. The other option is to keep another carrier/freighter in the fleet like a Condor or Gemini for small actions.

As to my 2nd point; any thoughts on carrier/fighter supply efficiency?
It seems to me that, for any engagement small enough for peak performance to not be a real concern, destroyers/frigates bring far more firepower than their equivalent supply cost in carriers/fighters.

If an engagement goes badly (and assuming you don't just save-scum), then you will take frigate/destroyer losses, but a fighter/carrier force only has to successfully retreat its carriers to save all its fighters, IIRC.

Yeah - this is why I love them for big fleet fights. You can also use them very effectively in hit and run, especially with a couple Dagger wings. Even if your bombers get absolutely chewed up, you won't lose hulls.

[Midnight Kitsune]

If the engagement is small enough, you can either use just fighters (they will be knocked out of battle if destroyed, but not lost forever) and or your escort frigs

[Aeson]

Here's my Heron layout:

Personally, I think Stabilized Shields are a bit of a waste on the Heron. The module is only going to save you 75 flux generation (and only while the shields are active), which is roughly equivalent to 7.5 ordnance points spent in vents, but you paid 9 ordnance points for it. Even more so if you give it a Front Shield Emitter, because the two modules stack multiplicatively rather than additively, which means that with both mounted you're paying 19 ordnance points to generate 112.5 less flux per second while shields are raised (75 from the first mounted, 37.5 from the second). I'd either pay the extra ordnance point for a Front Shield Emitter or dump the points into something else, but whatever floats your boat.

[Megas]

I would like Front Shield Emitter on my Heron, but Heron has few OP to work with.  The one hullmod that is must-have is Augmented Engines.  If it has Heavy Blaster, then Integrated Targeting Unit is must-have too.  It can get away without ITU if it sticks with Heavy Mauler and Tactical Lasers.  After that, it is juggling between various PD lasers, vents, and Hardened Subsystems.

[SafariJohn]

Here's my Heron layout:

Personally, I think Stabilized Shields are a bit of a waste on the Heron. The module is only going to save you 75 flux generation (and only while the shields are active), which is roughly equivalent to 7.5 ordnance points spent in vents, but you paid 9 ordnance points for it. Even more so if you give it a Front Shield Emitter, because the two modules stack multiplicatively rather than additively, which means that with both mounted you're paying 19 ordnance points to generate 112.5 less flux per second while shields are raised (75 from the first mounted, 37.5 from the second). I'd either pay the extra ordnance point for a Front Shield Emitter or dump the points into something else, but whatever floats your boat.

That is because I've never actually thought about what Stabilized Shields actually does. I should probably do that.

[TJJ]

Gave up on the Heron, and just fielded a fleet of Enforcers like usual  
Optimal strat. is optimal I guess.

Finally got pirates to welcoming.... the one thing I'd not yet done in vanilla SS!
Get to check out their 'exclusive' military hardware page on Umbra......  6 Falcon (D)'s. *yay*, not just junk, but broken junk.

Underwhelming to say the least.

Now to repair my reputation with the Hegemony & Sindrian Diktat   (independents were a lost cause long ago  )

FYI small independent smuggler fleets are like big fat piñatas! Often you'll find them carrying ~500 illegal goods of one type or another, which in the right market will make you ~400k profit.
Obviously chump change once you're end-game, but in the early game 400k buys you an entire fleet!

:edit:

Btw, once you reach -25 rep (inhospitable) is there no way of repairing rep without attacking their enemies?
Obviously you can't trade, and cargo inspection fees no-longer improve your rep.

How does the "Minor slights and and offences are forgotten after a time. If not reinforced by a recent pattern of behaviour." (+15 rep) event work?
Does it only trigger while at a negative, but neutral rep?

[Megas]

Obviously you can't trade, and cargo inspection fees no-longer improve your rep.

Are you sure about this?  I think (IIRC) I paid a toll once and got a +1, though I was very close to suspicious (i.e., +1 was all I needed to go from inhospitable to suspicious).

[TJJ]

Obviously you can't trade, and cargo inspection fees no-longer improve your rep.

Are you sure about this?  I think (IIRC) I paid a toll once and got a +1, though I was very close to suspicious (i.e., +1 was all I needed to go from inhospitable to suspicious).

Pretty sure; I was at -30 something with Hegemony & didn't get a rep improvement when paying a fine. "your reputation with this faction is already cemented...blah blah" or something to that effect.
Maybe I was at 'suspicious'.....

I'll try it again...

:edit:

Yep, according to the text, paying a toll has no effect.



....though it did make the 'reputation has changed' der-dum sfx.
I'll have to keep precise track of my before&after rep..... to be sure.

:edit2:

Looks like you're correct; paying fees does improve your reputation by +1, even if the dialogue message says it has no effect. Logged it as a bug.