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[SgtAlex86]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8783264/Speed-of-light-broken-an-experts-view.html
there ya go 

There is still no conclusive evidence that says that what CERN discovered was the truth or a misread on the part of its instruments, and even if the speed of light had been broken, by the correspondence principle, all previous observations about scientific law and theory would remain true, meaning conservation of mass and energy would STILL EXIST.

the experiment has been repeated with same results... sure they might have fked up twice in a row but VERY unlikely

[Iscariot]

Certainty and myth

Any scientific theory is closely tied to empirical findings, and always remains subject to falsification if new experimental observation incompatible with it is found. That is, no theory can ever be seriously considered certain as new evidence falsifying it can be discovered.

Its the heart of science, its the beauty of it. If you don't get that, then you are as close minded as people who claimed the earth was flat and refused to see the evidences.

That is absolutely true. All theories are falsifiable, because they are explanations. That doesn't make them false or suspect however, and that also doesn't change the fact that THERMODYNAMIC IS A LAW. IT is NOT falsifiable because it is not a proposition. It is not substantiated by theories it simply IS. It exists and is observed, it describes something that exists. For a law to be false, the phenomenon described has to have never existed and that SIMPLY IS NOT THE CASE.

[Iscariot]

the experiment has been repeated with same results... sure they might have fked up twice in a row but VERY unlikely

Show me.

[coylter]

Certainty and myth

Any scientific theory is closely tied to empirical findings, and always remains subject to falsification if new experimental observation incompatible with it is found. That is, no theory can ever be seriously considered certain as new evidence falsifying it can be discovered.

Its the heart of science, its the beauty of it. If you don't get that, then you are as close minded as people who claimed the earth was flat and refused to see the evidences.

That is absolutely true. All theories are falsifiable, because they are explanations. That doesn't make them false or suspect however, and that also doesn't change the fact that THERMODYNAMIC IS A LAW. IT is NOT falsifiable because it is not a proposition. It is not substantiated by theories it simply IS. It exists and is observed, it describes something that exists. For a law to be false, the phenomenon described has to have never existed and that SIMPLY IS NOT THE CASE.

You can call it any word you like. The fact is, new evidence can be found that would change it. We just have not met the conditions in which it fails to explain "x".

And no, for a law to be false it simply has to not work in a new situation. We then have to find a way to make it work.

[SgtAlex86]

the experiment has been repeated with same results... sure they might have fked up twice in a row but VERY unlikely

Show me.

theres link to second story in the same link about it being repeated and third run being underway...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html

[Iscariot]

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a *** scientific law is. A scientific law describes something. For example 'Things don't pop out of nowhere' or 'The sky is blue today'. A scientific theory amasses evidence and proposes an explanation for things. For example, 'The sky is blue because of how the atmosphere refracts light'.

You cannot violate law because it is something that simply exists. It's not an explanation, so it doesn't require evidence, you look at it and it is there.

[coylter]

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a *** scientific law is. A scientific law describes something. For example 'Things don't pop out of nowhere' or 'The sky is blue today'. A scientific theory amasses evidence and proposes an explanation for things. For example, 'The sky is blue because of how the atmosphere refracts light'.

You cannot violate law because it is something that simply exists. It's not an explanation, so it doesn't require evidence, you look at it and it is there.

I am sorry but things CAN pop out of nowhere. And i am not saying there are not things we know for 99.999999999999999999999% certain.

[SgtAlex86]

and if u were awake at science class u would know that laws of science are just opservations about laws of nature and explanations why they work the way they do
if new phenomenon in nature(world) is discovered that brakes any law off science, the law comes off the list because its then proven false...

[Avan]

*cough*

People come here to talk about starfarer, not debate semantics and the theories and laws of physics. THIS IS A 2D SPACE GAME WITH FTL AND NOISE IN SPACE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. IT ISN'T HARD SCI-FI. AT ALL. I think this thread has gone far enough off-topic in an unproductive direction as to win an unofficial award of "Lamest thread on the forum".

[Iscariot]

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a *** scientific law is. A scientific law describes something. For example 'Things don't pop out of nowhere' or 'The sky is blue today'. A scientific theory amasses evidence and proposes an explanation for things. For example, 'The sky is blue because of how the atmosphere refracts light'.

You cannot violate law because it is something that simply exists. It's not an explanation, so it doesn't require evidence, you look at it and it is there.

I am sorry but things CAN pop out of nowhere.

No. And I'm done with you.

the experiment has been repeated with same results... sure they might have fked up twice in a row but VERY unlikely

Show me.

theres link to second story in the same link about it being repeated and third run being underway...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8901001/Speed-of-light-broken-again-as-scientists-test-neutrino-result.html

The scientists themselves admit that their experiment is flawed, so producing the same result twice in a row is not necessarily a surprise. When the scientists themselves say that they've run the experiment to death, then I'll believe it, until then, no one has a right to jump the gun and throw all of physics out the window until the scientists do.

And again, it wouldn't matter at all, because of the correspondence principle.

[SgtAlex86]

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a *** scientific law is. A scientific law describes something. For example 'Things don't pop out of nowhere' or 'The sky is blue today'. A scientific theory amasses evidence and proposes an explanation for things. For example, 'The sky is blue because of how the atmosphere refracts light'.

You cannot violate law because it is something that simply exists. It's not an explanation, so it doesn't require evidence, you look at it and it is there.

no just no
things that "exist" are not laws of science those "sky is blue, rocks fall," are laws of nature and those do not change... laws of science are based on those laws and if they contradict laws of science are wrong

[coylter]

You should read up on quantum mechanics.

There is a chance all of your atoms will move in the same direction and morph you into a rock. The chance is smaller than anything we can write down but its possible.

I am not delusional, i know you wont change your mind. But truth is truth.

[Iscariot]

*cough*

People come here to talk about starfarer, not debate semantics and the theories and laws of physics. THIS IS A 2D SPACE GAME WITH FTL AND NOISE IN SPACE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. IT ISN'T HARD SCI-FI. AT ALL. I think this thread has gone far enough off-topic in an unproductive direction as to win an unofficial award of "Lamest thread on the forum".

I reserve the right to defend basic science as long as people keep attacking me for it. I am perfectly happy to keep talking about our 2D space game with FTL and noise in space if people want to talk about it, but so long as these clowns keep coming at me, I'm going to keep dishing it out.

[coylter]

*cough*

People come here to talk about starfarer, not debate semantics and the theories and laws of physics. THIS IS A 2D SPACE GAME WITH FTL AND NOISE IN SPACE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. IT ISN'T HARD SCI-FI. AT ALL. I think this thread has gone far enough off-topic in an unproductive direction as to win an unofficial award of "Lamest thread on the forum".

I reserve the right to defend basic science as long as people keep attacking me for it. I am perfectly happy to keep talking about our 2D space game with FTL and noise in space if people want to talk about it, but so long as these clowns keep coming at me, I'm going to keep dishing it out.

I hope you don't defend science too often, because people might get the wrong idea of what science is. Beside, you keep on throwing these subtle ad hominem, like linking to the evolution page, like im some kind of creationist.

[Iscariot]

no just no
things that "exist" are not laws of science those "sky is blue, rocks fall," are laws of nature and those do not change... laws of science are based on those laws and if they contradict laws of science are wrong

"A scientific law is a description of an observed phenomenon. Kepler's Laws of Planetary Motion are a good example. Those laws describe the motions of planets. But they do not explain why they are that way. If all scientists ever did was to formulate scientific laws, then the universe would be very well-described, but still unexplained and very mysterious.

A theory is a scientific explanation of an observed phenomenon. Unlike laws, theories actually explain why things are the way they are. Theories are what science is for. If, then, a theory is a scientific explanation of a natural phenomena, ask yourself this: "What part of that definition excludes a theory from being a fact?" The answer is nothing! There is no reason a theory cannot be an actual fact as well."

You should read up on quantum mechanics.

There is a chance all of your atoms will move in the same direction and morph you into a rock. The chance is smaller than anything we can write down but its possible.

I am not delusional, i know you wont change your mind. But truth is truth.

That's not the same as something popping out of nowhere, and that statement itself is highly suspect.