Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[senor]

I forget precisely how the old hanger space/capacity system worked, but I really wish it was back.  Id rather fighters had to dock in carriers to travel in hyperspace.  Admittedly, i guess that means they would also not be able to fight in hyperspace-zone battles...

i guess i like the idea of fighters being in hangars not flying around solo constantly.  maybe it's just me.  I miss it.

[SafariJohn]

I think the current justification is that a lot of ships have hangars that can transport fighters, just not ones that can service a fighter in-battle.

No fighters in Hyperspace might be interesting, but it would be a huge lore/mechanical/balancing endeavor to encompass that change. Not viable, IMO.

[Histidine]

Wasn't the old hangar system just "this is how many fighters you can have, if you go over this number Bad Things happen?"

If there's one thing bringing back the concept of hangars (they don't even have to exist as an actual value, just a lore thing) would be good for, it's abolishing the concept of fighter burn speed. The values are generally faster than most ships and the Navigation bonuses are identical to that for frigates anyway, so it mostly serves as UI clutter. When it doesn't and a fighter wing ends up slowing the fleet down (this happened to me in SS+ with Claymores), it's very annoying (OMG why can't you just ride in the carrier and go the same speed as everyone else?!)

"What about if an AI fleet only has fighters left?" Then it should just die, like the player fleet already does.

Admittedly, i guess that means they would also not be able to fight in hyperspace-zone battles...

You could just decree that fighters can move about in hyperspace like everyone else, but can't transition between normal space and hyper without a carrier.
Although requiring a carrier (as in "has a flight deck") is probably too punitive and not necessary for lore/theme purposes - I imagine you could just strap the fighters to any random hyper-capable ship for the jump.

[Flare]

I think the current justification is that a lot of ships have hangars that can transport fighters, just not ones that can service a fighter in-battle.

Or maybe they just install hooks or clamps on the outside of ships and attach fighters to those when they are fully repaired and prepped.

[senor]

Wasn't the old hangar system just "this is how many fighters you can have, if you go over this number Bad Things happen?"

If there's one thing bringing back the concept of hangars (they don't even have to exist as an actual value, just a lore thing) would be good for, it's abolishing the concept of fighter burn speed. The values are generally faster than most ships and the Navigation bonuses are identical to that for frigates anyway, so it mostly serves as UI clutter. When it doesn't and a fighter wing ends up slowing the fleet down (this happened to me in SS+ with Claymores), it's very annoying (OMG why can't you just ride in the carrier and go the same speed as everyone else?!)

"What about if an AI fleet only has fighters left?" Then it should just die, like the player fleet already does.

Admittedly, i guess that means they would also not be able to fight in hyperspace-zone battles...

You could just decree that fighters can move about in hyperspace like everyone else, but can't transition between normal space and hyper without a carrier.
Although requiring a carrier (as in "has a flight deck") is probably too punitive and not necessary for lore/theme purposes - I imagine you could just strap the fighters to any random hyper-capable ship for the jump.

good points, thanks for the feedback.  especially the part about them slowing the fleet down.  i think that happened with me with some tridents.  OMG was that annoying.  in fact i think that's what made me wish for a hangar system, which made me want to come suggest this in the first place.  i ended up forgetting that by the time i had typed this up though.

Edit: come to think of it, it is strange from a fiction point of view for fighter wings to be flying around on their own for very long, or being strapped to a hull.  Eventually the pilots would need to get out a rest, get food and water, etc.  The idea that some larger ship hulls have unlisted docking bays for logistics purposes doesnt really cover it i think, because a Hound for example certainly cant dock a fighter.  there's that concept art showing a Hound in a hangar bay and it's way too small to be holding a fighter inside.

From an immersion standpoint, i think fighters need to all have somewhere to land for quite a while, especially if they're going to be recovering from damage and losses during or between battles.  i dont see how a small frigate or destroyer sized carrier can be holding all the replacement fighter craft that they can launch.  And in order to properly recover from damage between battles it's gotta be more costly in time and resources to not have a proper, large enough flight deck.  Flying around in EVA suits tinkering with flights of fighter craft that are strapped to the outside of a tanker hull sounds really impractical and expensive.

[SafariJohn]

i dont see how a small frigate or destroyer sized carrier can be holding all the replacement fighter craft that they can launch.

Replacement fighters are manufactured/put together/something in battle, IIRC.

[TrashMan]

That explanations is something i always found cringe-worthy.
Your warship is also a flying factory apparently.
Because factories are simple and small.

**

On another note, why would anyone even have fighters in the air when traveling at full burn on in hyperspace?
What is the point. No interception is possible, it adds NOTHING other than more clutter on screen and slower fleets.

I wish you could send your fighter wings on the global map out to some far way fleets to harass/damage them.

[Megas]

Hound had enough Hangar points for a wing of Talons, and Vigilance had some.  None of the other frigates had them.  Destroyers except Medusa (and maybe one other) had hangar points.  All cruisers and capitals had hangar points.

Re: fighter burn speed
Fighters can be slower than you think because you cannot put Augmented Engines on them.  +2 burn is huge!

[senor]

Regarding a Hound or other frigate sized ship having hangar capacity.  Based on an art image the hound is way too small to hold any fighters, much less manufacture one.

http://fractalsoftworks.com/2013/02/05/painting-the-hound-and-the-hangar/

[Flare]

I think all the ships in tje game are a little too small to fit any fighters inside that are bigger than a scooter.

[ValkyriaL]

the fighters are on a different layer of the battlefield, they are above all the other ships, they shrink when they land on carriers, so they arn't anywhere near as big as they look.

[WKOB]

Well, they can fit a human regardless of their actual size, and you could only fit so many, shall we say, large motorcycles onto the interior or even exterior of the Hound when compared to humans in it's concept art.

However, I don't think it's really worth all that nit-picking about size. All I have to say is that Fighters and Carriers seem to be a semi-incomplete entity, they could use a small overhaul and I'm sure Alex has better ideas about how to do it when that actually comes up on his to-do list. For now, it functions.

[Megas]

Regarding a Hound or other frigate sized ship having hangar capacity.  Based on an art image the hound is way too small to hold any fighters, much less manufacture one.

Back in the days of Starfarer, when hangar space was a stat, two frigates had hangar space, but not much.  Hound was one of them, and it had 3 (or how much Talons were worth) FP worth of hangar space, enough for only one wing of Talons.

Whether it made sense or not is irrelevant.  It is what Starfarer had.

Wasn't the old hangar system just "this is how many fighters you can have, if you go over this number Bad Things happen?"

Yes.

[Vind]

I miss old hangar space feature too, with small and slow repairs of fighters without dedicated carrier after battle. I cant really imagine fighters to cross star systems on their own without support ship of some kind.

[ahrenjb]

I also wish fighters were held in bays during travel.

If you had more wings than your fleet had hanger space, your burn speed should be limited.