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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Regarding to Combat Pass of 0.65.2a (In Development)  (Read 5518 times)

SafariJohn

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Re: Regarding to Combat Pass of 0.65.2a (In Development)
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 04:39:59 AM »


Spoiler
If it's not showing, it says, "NEEDS TO BE ABOUT 20% COOLER")
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 01:14:34 PM by HartLord »
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Silver Silence

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Re: Regarding to Combat Pass of 0.65.2a (In Development)
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 12:05:26 PM »

As a player who goes around vanilla and every mod I play, unlimiting the ammo on any weapon or missile that's not a one-shot 1 OP rack, I'm okay with these changes. If the idea of magazines is kept, then all I will be doing is removing the ammo reserves. Everyone still needs to reload and have downtime but can carry on fighting for extended engagements. Pretty much every time a large fleet battle happens, missiles that are not Pilums are spent by the time the first or second ship is dead. Then the missile racks are dead weight. I'd rather leave them empty and use the OP for vents/capacitors, hullmods and high-OP weaponry. Personally, I'd rather have magazines be a thing for missiles as well. So that you can fire off a volley of three or four harpoons to push a ship over the edge and then have some lengthy downtime and be ready to push another ship over the edge. If I want engagements, I want those engagements to be final. I want the next transition to the battle screen to be under different circumstances. Not part 1 of the fight, part 2 of the fight, part 3 of the fight, rout. There is no passing of time when two fleets meet. Seemingly all that happens is that ships flee and all parties sign a gentleman's agreement to pull ammo out of their ass for a second or two and then rematch. Tanks carry enough ammo to fight for hours at a time, ships have small warehouses built into them to carry their ammo, you're telling me an Onslaught crewed by a few hundred men and women runs out of puff after a few minutes? What sort of dysfunctional hodge podge of ships are we flying?
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Agalyon

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Re: Regarding to Combat Pass of 0.65.2a (In Development)
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 05:24:13 PM »

Unlimited Ballistic Ammo & Regenerating Missile Ammo
Personally, I don't like these changes one bit. And here is why. But before that, you need to understand how I play, and you'll most likely see why I don't like the changes at all. I play as a bounty hunter, at most 2D+1F fleet, rather small so to speak. I am able to take on pretty much anything in one go, except fleets with capital ships, which requires me to fight a battle of attrition.

Attrition you ask? If the enemy capital ship has a lot of ballistic/missile weapons, and just a few energy weapons, the battles sometimes drag on a lot. First thing I do is get rid of any escorts, then let the capital ship run out of ammo. When the enemy capital ship is out of ammo, most of the time it is forced to retreat, where I keep pushing on and eventually they have just a little bit of CR left, while I still have loads. Malfunctions here and there on the enemy ships, while mine are working fine. And eventually the enemy succumbs to the pressure.

And enemy missile boats. Have you seen a lot of these, and them firing at the same time? Lower your shields for a second, and you are dead. Overload, and you are dead. Keep your distance, be patient, and enemy runs out of missiles, which is an opening you've been waiting for. Also, I've run out of ammo more than a few times, which forced me to retreat or call in reinforcements. Contrary to what people thing, you can run out of ammo.

I can talk about many other examples that changes gameplay just because some weapons have limited ammo. But these examples have one common point: small fleets trying to take on bigger ones. Small ships trying to take on bigger ones. So my suggestions are: don't remove the ammo limit; don't make missiles regenerate. Instead, if you really want to adapt these, add two hull modifications instead; one for each, which would manufacture ammunition in combat. But make ammo limit still count for something, even if these modifications are present on the ship.

Flux-to-energy damage
I also don't like this change. Whenever I am using energy weapons, I often try to stay on high flux zone in order to receive a substantial damage bonus. One wild volley hitting my shields would mean overload for me, but that is the price to pay. More than 50% of the times that I am exchanging fire, I am well over 50-60% flux in order to get a bonus to keep the pressure on the enemy.

The main reason
The main reason I don't like these changes is, it takes away what makes each type of weapon unique (flux bonus for energy weapons, limited ammo for ballistics & missiles). I really think it is a mistake. We can always get a mod that "reverts" these changes, but still, please consider what you are doing.
You know, I was sorta kinda on board with the changes, until I read this thread and starting thinking about it. And you're right, really. Running out of ammo does happen, and it does make you think. Maybe if there were more things differentiating energy and ballistic, maybe if dealing with walls of missiles didn't suck so much, maybe. But as it stands, I agree with you that if you want unlimited ammo, you should have to pay for it. To much is changed by the backlash of something like that to just hand it out.

EDIT: Also, in reference to The Soldier, energy weapons are not uniformly better than everything else. Technically, kinetic weapons are, and in a perfect world, explosive weapons would be the best. But because numbers never add up perfectly, energy weapons are the easiest to use, if only on the right ships.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:30:13 PM by HeartofDiscord »
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