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Author Topic: I'm not the only one who feels a lack of fulfillment every playthrough, am I...?  (Read 8711 times)

angrytigerp

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Let me go ahead and start off with the mandatory disclaimer: I love the death out of this game. The five dollars I spent back in the 0.3 days keep repaying themselves, and I could see myself spending the current 10 bucks, or even 20 bucks on release, on getting it. I've replayed the game dozens of times, investing hours, DAYS even, per playthrough.

... But therein lies the crux. See, that's just it: I feel like the game just sort of loses its drive once I've reached a certain point in my playthrough, usually by the time I'm rolling in a capital ship, am floating around level 20-30, and can indiscriminately wipe out anything and everything I see. With the help of mods, at first, and later the hyperspace/'more than one system' update, I found myself able to explore a bigger universe, and even before Alex and Co. implemented the current faction system, I played the hell out of loadsafaction mods like Exerelin, Corvus's series, and SS+.

Every time, vanilla or modded, my playthrough is more or less the same: Pick a faction who I want to be best friends with this playthrough, and do whatever I can to curry favor with them. Build up rep till I'm representing them in style with a full fleet of homogeneous warships, with the odd plundered vessel from a different faction in my fleet's numbers, and then... lose interest as the game rapidly becomes a chore of chasing down enemy battlegroups, wiping the map with them, running back to the nearest station to offload my loot for money I don't need anymore.

But even when there's a dozen+ factions on the playing field, wherein I feel like there's active conflict and I have an effect on politics in the relationship, I can't help but feel the tedium get to me before too long, usually around the 15-20 hour mark for even the most heavily-modded playthroughs. And I find myself worrying, because while, yes, I very much enjoy every time I start a new campaign, I feel like the game will never be anything more than just a bunch of these start-from-scratch replays.

This is by no means a dig at the dev team -- I've no better ideas how to make some sort of lasting endgame. Perhaps you have things in mind for .7, .8, .9, the final release, and future updates. I simply don't know. But I'd just like to know if I'm the only person who more or less just lives for mods coming out, hoping something comes out that breaks the tedium, be it a faction with a bunch of new ships and weapons to find and collect, minor gameplay mods that tweak the base structure of the campaign (i.e. SS+ adding new skills, the Assassination missions, etc.), or completely overhaul everything, adding new features along the way (i.e. Ironclads, or the quickly-evolving EVE TC).

Although it's indicative of a guilty conscience to repeat this fact, I'd like to just emphasize that I am absolutely not criticizing the game. Perhaps lack of endgame is a known issue, or maybe it was always intended to be played with short little campaigns that you don't have to invest weeks of playtime to really complete. I don't know, but it's just something that's been grating on me.
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Blaze

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You're definitely not the only one. The combat system is very robust, but once you reach a certain point...

It's particularly aggravating that, despite how strong you are, you have practically no effect on the universe. I've annihilated dozens of detached forces with my squad of 3 frigates so I could finally land and sell my smuggled drugs on an enemy planet. Yet once have I slaughtered the last detached force the planet spits out another one like nothing.

Alpha is Alpha though.
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Alex

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Just want to say that I hear you. The campaign "progression", as it were, is nowhere near fleshed out yet, and it's unlikely to get too fleshed out until all (or at least most of) the planned features are in. Still, I think it's improving from version to version, but yeah, I basically share your opinion of how things are right now - and it's very much "known issue" rather than "intended" :)
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angrytigerp

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Just want to say that I hear you. The campaign "progression", as it were, is nowhere near fleshed out yet, and it's unlikely to get too fleshed out until all (or at least most of) the planned features are in. Still, I think it's improving from version to version, but yeah, I basically share your opinion of how things are right now - and it's very much "known issue" rather than "intended" :)

And I would like to point out that I have high hopes that you guys can come up with some really cool stuff to make playthrough last longer -- building your own ships/weapons, maybe? Player ownership of systems, so that to 'win' you have to take over the sector? I'm not gonna sit here listing off "stuff I think is cool" because I'm not tryna be the guy where I see you here and think I can backseat develop the game; just saying, I'm hoping for the best.

Also as Blaze points out, sometimes I forget that this is just an ALPHA. That it's held me in for so long is testament to your guys' skills at knowing what a game needs to be.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:23:21 PM by angrytigerp »
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Dark.Revenant

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Part of the problem of developing an endgame is in the word.  End.  It's not really possible to do the endgame right until you know exactly what the rest of the game will be, and in this case you don't really know that until you've done it.
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Muffalopadus

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Just want to say that I hear you. The campaign "progression", as it were, is nowhere near fleshed out yet, and it's unlikely to get too fleshed out until all (or at least most of) the planned features are in. Still, I think it's improving from version to version, but yeah, I basically share your opinion of how things are right now - and it's very much "known issue" rather than "intended" :)

I'm glad to see that Alex immediately weighed in on this topic.  I also logged in today to look around to see if anyone else had this issue.  I love this game to death, but I get the most enjoyment out of it by restarting my game over and over once I reach "that certain point" the OP was talking about. 

Keep up the good work Alex and Co.
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Tartiflette

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“It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.”
Ernest Hemingway


(brainy quote of the day ><)
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gruberscomplete

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Although I haven't played this game for very long, I think I have experienced this too. One of the things that makes any game addictive is the prospect of advancement, and when you reach the top, and you buy all the ships and get your own army, and smash everything, again and again, you start to feel, what is the point of this?

Like the game could be given more of an endgame with not just 20 ships fighting, but 200, with a massive battle consisting of multiple fleets. In fact, a battle should not stop fleets flying around the solar system from suddenly stopping until the battle ends. It could be possible that fleets could join a battle even while it is occurring, making more of a challenge, and not forcing a player to do 10 battles, but just one.

Hopefully this helps a bit.
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Megas

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No game provides fulfillment, only entertainment.
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sirboomalot

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For those of you who keep hitting this point, you could always do something to help make the game more challenging. For example, my favorite thing to do is to limit myself to frigates and only frigates. Those giant detachment fleets can be much harder to take on when you have to rely on swarm tactics and trying to defeat your enemy before your ships start breaking down.
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Serenitis

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For those of you who keep hitting this point, you could always do something to help make the game more challenging.

No buying ships is 'interesting'.
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Baleur

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No game provides fulfillment, only entertainment.

This.
This is what happens everytime you play one game too much. You gotta play other games too.
I love Civilization to death but after the 5'th time in a week entering the modern era on epic timescale, im bored.
I love Europa Universalis to death, but after too many hours of the exact same kind of gameplay, i also get bored.
I love Elite Dangerous, but after the 289'th planet you visit, i also get bored.
Gotta mix it up. A bit of this, a bit of that.
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Schwartz

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For an open-ended sandbox, it's doing about as well as it can do. Especially considering it's unfinished. You can liken it to Mount & Blade minus the personalities. That would be something cool to implement. Distinct NPC personas with their own grudges, preferences, agendas and more or less rational behaviour. People you can recruit, people you can do procedurally generated quests for through conversation.
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tempestora

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Speaking of personality, it's a long shot and probably more trouble than it's worth, but a implementation like the nemesis system from SoM would be interesting. Having recurring AI captains with simple motivations interacting with the player could give a more personal feel to combat. E.g Pirate King Baxxas, the one who's minions you killed when hunting down Pirates in Corvus System has taken a personal grudge against the player since the booty they were carrying included a limited edition copy of his favorite game "Mutilator Extreme X", and so takes occasional personal command of a vengeance fleet to wipe out the player, throwing more and more powerful fleets at the player till the final battle where he uses his flagship onslaught and is finally slain.

Now ignoring the silly premise for this hypothetical, if it included some witty banter, I'd happily play that out. It allows for interesting little procedural stories that play out. A Hegemony Admiral who takes a disliking to you after you blow up a ship his daughter was screwing swears vengeance and goes outside his command to attack you with loyal captains whose actions are disavowed by Hegemony command (so your actions against them don't impact faction standings)etc.

Sadly I don't see this sort of thing happening given the amount of throw away writing required and limited developer time/resources, but I thought I'd float the idea in case one of the more code saavy modders take a liking to it and decide to invest the time
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retalogy

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No game provides fulfillment, only entertainment.

This.
This is what happens everytime you play one game too much. You gotta play other games too.
I love Civilization to death but after the 5'th time in a week entering the modern era on epic timescale, im bored.
I love Europa Universalis to death, but after too many hours of the exact same kind of gameplay, i also get bored.
I love Elite Dangerous, but after the 289'th planet you visit, i also get bored.
Gotta mix it up. A bit of this, a bit of that.

Though some games you can just go on and on, and never be able to quit. For me those games where LoL, CS and Warcraft 3. I think what made those games so great where the competitive or social aspects of those games. I really love climbing the ladder and ascending to the top brackets, but I also really liked making friends as well. Some games stay fresh for longer, because you can enjoy the game not just as merely a game, but as something much more. However, I don't think Starsector could ever be that.
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