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Mostly Agree

Mostly Disagree

[CopperCoyote]

It's a little less biased. It's still self-selecting people who vote though, and probably favors people that have strong opinions one way or another

[ValkyriaL]

Considering i can't chose a neutral option, id have to not agree with the update, theres a few things in the list i feel are going to be game breaking and remove much of the variety in weapons, with the changes, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use many of the weapons in the game.

It has become more of a "hunt for better magic pants" than a " this item is different, and could provide interesting advantages with the right setups", and i dislike that.

[Zapier]

I'm not sure how this update alone is going to make it "hunt for better magic pants" since damage types are still different, ranges are still different with many weapons, different ships can only use specific types of weapons in various slots. There's still plenty of different setups with different advantages and disadvantages.

Not to mention, if the update doesn't feel good there's still the ability to revert the changes. Nothing is set in stone and while it's more of a consolation... modders can still change these very changes.

[Tartiflette]

Not to mention, if the update doesn't feel good there's still the ability to revert the changes. Nothing is set in stone and while it's more of a consolation... modders can still change these very changes.

   That's not that simple: Once the update get out, anyone can revert the changes fairly quickly, especially if he only revert back to the previous values. The problem is, all the mods will also update their weapons for the new mechanic and balance.
   So you'll have the choice of playing only vanilla, okay that's good but after a while it get repetitive, install mods that aren't balanced with your "ammo vanilla", or also makes the changes for every single mod out there! And let me tell you, balancing things is certainly the hardest thing to get right. Re-balancing all mods given their specifics to play nice with ammo after they removed it will be a colossal task...

So no, "you can revert the changes via a mod" isn't a good argument in favor of the patch.

[Zapier]

   That's not that simple: Once the update get out, anyone can revert the changes fairly quickly, especially if he only revert back to the previous values. The problem is, all the mods will also update their weapons for the new mechanic and balance.
   So you'll have the choice of playing only vanilla, okay that's good but after a while it get repetitive, install mods that aren't balanced with your "ammo vanilla", or also makes the changes for every single mod out there! And let me tell you, balancing things is certainly the hardest thing to get right. Re-balancing all mods given their specifics to play nice with ammo after they removed it will be a colossal task...

So no, "you can revert the changes via a mod" isn't a good argument in favor of the patch.

First, it wasn't meant as an argument in favor of it, that's why I said a consolation because dedicated modders could do it or Alex himself could revert the change later if the change is not liked or doesn't feel good at all.  Not to mention, I was speaking about more than just ammo since I was referring to the update as a whole, such as range changes and damage changes. That was geared towards ValkyriaL's comment about this move making it more "hunt for better magic pants" rather than "this item is different, and could provide interesting advantages with the right setups." Removing ammo limitations likely affects the AI a lot more than players, so it shouldn't really change varied setups at all.

Second, there are plenty of other arguments in favor of said update and there's plenty of other ways to assume this direction of removing 'ammo' could lead to more interesting design choices. I for one would find the possibility of going to some sort of reloading cycle to be more interesting gameplay dynamic than just simply running out of ammo on some odd occasions. It would have more obvious differences between energy, ballistics and missiles than there currently is. Not that this might end up happening, but it's coming up in discussions more right now because of the move to simply remove ammo limitations across more weapon systems.

[Linnis]

Game balance wise, its better. I don't want to choose a ship or weapon because it has the ability to "solo an entire fleet", which in the end, almost half of the time its "solo the entire fleet" type of battle we partake in. Otherwise, ammo is mostly not a problem.

Still not all weapons have unlimited ammo mind you...

[Captain Pugh]

If the question is, 'Do you agree that, numerically, most of the changes are good?' then I mostly agree.

If the question is, 'Do you agree that, numerically, most of the changes are good?  But some of the changes that you don't like, you really don't like; such that you'd prefer the entire patch to not happen, since the negative effect of the small number of bad things looks like it'll outweigh the positive effect of the larger number of good things?' then that'd be me - so I picked 'mostly disagree'.

Of course, even that's too binary and unfair, as it might not be such a package deal; in t'other thread, Alex is amenable to addressing feedback about the few things I really don't like (already mentioned by others), so it may well turn out I mostly agree with the actual patch that we get at the end of this process.

[isaacssv552]

See above.

I also an fine with most but hate a few things, such as CR timers on destroyers/cruisers and no ammo on ballistics.

[Igncom1]

on/off player here

I can't say I have ever noticed or experienced the lack of ballistics ammo, so dats cool.

The missile change is awesome because from what I have seen, if it wasn't a medium mount missile (have yet to find a large mount missile ship) then my AI's would fire at the first opportunity, and then no missiles for the rest of the entire battle.

The battle timers? Cool I suppose, keeps me from going battle, to battle, to battle on another anti-sindrian dictat campaign where I killed every fleet in their home system.


Overall, looks coolio

[JH1]

Regenerating missiles:
+ save OP
- spammy gameplay
- less tactics defensively and offensively
- should affect all missiles, otherwise there will be magical regenerating, and normal limited missiles.

Unlimited ammo:
+ save OP
-less tactics, depth

I hope flux damage boost stays on beam weapons.

[Midnight Kitsune]

Regenerating missiles:
+ save OP
- spammy gameplay
- less tactics defensively and offensively
- should affect all missiles, otherwise there will be magical regenerating, and normal limited missiles.

Unlimited ammo:
+ save OP
-less tactics, depth

I hope flux damage boost stays on beam weapons.

What do you mean by "save OP?" Do you mean not having to install the expanded racks/ mags mods?
I agree that all missiles should regen because what makes Pilums, Salamanders and Hurricane missiles so different that they can be reloaded mid battle but others can't?
On the beam damage thing: NOPE! AND they won't even get the 25% boost that all the other energy weapons are getting, so they'll be even MORE inferior...

[Thaago]

Regenerating missiles:
+ save OP
- spammy gameplay
- less tactics defensively and offensively
- should affect all missiles, otherwise there will be magical regenerating, and normal limited missiles.

Unlimited ammo:
+ save OP
-less tactics, depth

I hope flux damage boost stays on beam weapons.

What do you mean by "save OP?" Do you mean not having to install the expanded racks/ mags mods?
I agree that all missiles should regen because what makes Pilums, Salamanders and Hurricane missiles so different that they can be reloaded mid battle but others can't?
On the beam damage thing: NOPE! AND they won't even get the 25% boost that all the other energy weapons are getting, so they'll be even MORE inferior...

The reason that only Pilums/Salamanders recharge is because they are very different from other missiles in terms of gameplay: they are pressure weapons, not strike weapons. Recharging on them leads to them being fired frequently, while recharging on strike weapons would just lead to disengaging until they were at full ammo. Explaining why is as easy as saying "An advanced missile system with an autoloader...." in the description.

What do you mean by "tactics"? And is removing them actually a bad thing? To me the only tactic associated with either is "bait the enemy and make them blow ammo". I am happy that is getting removed.