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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 325223 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #540 on: February 16, 2015, 10:50:36 PM »

The "a" is for alpha. I did change it from RC1 to RC2, which is what the pattern has been for hotfixes, but I see your point. Probably warranted a .65.3 rather than "hotfix".
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Hopelessnoob

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #541 on: February 16, 2015, 11:35:46 PM »

I don't suppose we'll ever see peak performance time being a toggle or some more ways to influence it in the future? The more and more ships this gets added to the less I like it.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #542 on: February 16, 2015, 11:44:04 PM »

I can't really see doing that, no - it's a core feature and other stuff (such as weapons and ship stats) is balanced around it, so a toggle wouldn't make sense. Have you actually played this version, though? I think it's currently tuned in a way that's not particularly restricting.
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WKOB

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #543 on: February 16, 2015, 11:53:31 PM »

So, I thought I understood it, how exactly does ballistics ammo work now?

The ballistics all seem purely unlimited now, with no reloading aspects involved. I saw that in the weapons_data that the Light Machine Gun, just an example, has a value under reload_size but I can't tell how this works in-game.

Also, the game doesn't communicate very well which missiles will and will not regenerate. There's not real way to tell any difference between the Salamander MRM and the Harpoon Rack/Single outside of testing them.

No issue with the CR timer or anything, all seems nice.

Edit; Also, I like the change to Fast Missile Racks, feels a little more interesting now.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 12:01:37 AM by Austupaio »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #544 on: February 17, 2015, 12:12:19 AM »

So, I thought I understood it, how exactly does ballistics ammo work now?

The ballistics all seem purely unlimited now, with no reloading aspects involved. I saw that in the weapons_data that the Light Machine Gun, just an example, has a value under reload_size but I can't tell how this works in-game.

You probably did, but then I, uh, went and nuked the clips mechanic from orbit. It just seemed too messy for no real gain, considering the original goal here was to simplify things a bit.

(It's still in the game, technically, but none of the weapons make use of it.)

Also, the game doesn't communicate very well which missiles will and will not regenerate. There's not real way to tell any difference between the Salamander MRM and the Harpoon Rack/Single outside of testing them.

For Salamander vs Harpoon, in the tooltip, you can see an ammo count for the Harpoon but not one for the Salamander. For the Pilum (the other not-limited-ammo missile), there's an actual reload rate indicated in the tooltip.

Also, every missile with unlimited ammo talks about it in the short description.

... not that I'm saying these are particularly prominent, though the way the Pilum handles it is probably most apparent, with the reload rate being a visible stat.

It might be worthwhile to convert the Salamander to reload that way, too, instead of being unlimited-ammo-on-a-cooldown. The main difference is how it interacts with Fast Missile Racks - if the Salamander regenerated missile ammo instead of having a refire delay, FMR would not do anything for it. For the Pilum, FMR still works because the Pilum has a higher maximum ammo.

So, then, it might actually be best to up the ammo for the Salamander (and Pod) to something like 2-3 bursts worth, keep the refire delay high, and add ammo regen at the rate of the refire delay or thereabouts. Then we'd get the reload rate in the tooltip, it'd work with FMR, and would otherwise remain about the same. Hm.
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WKOB

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #545 on: February 17, 2015, 12:16:13 AM »

Ah, okay, I understand all that better now, and I see your issue with communication with the missiles. Oh well, just something to think about. However you end up doing it, I do think the weapon tool tip should make it very obvious what's, effectively, unlimited and what is not.

Edit; should we expect the clip functions to disappear from your base files? I ask because I liked the sound of the system and was going to use it, but I wouldn't want to do that if the next version would break all that.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 12:23:02 AM by Austupaio »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #546 on: February 17, 2015, 12:32:40 AM »

Edit; should we expect the clip functions to disappear from your base files? I ask because I liked the sound of the system and was going to use it, but I wouldn't want to do that if the next version would break all that.

Pretty sure I'll just leave it in, as the code for it is done and doesn't interact with anything else. The only way I could see needing to remove it is if that was made necessary by some other weapon mechanics reorg, and I really don't want to do *that*. Plus, I'd like to keep the mechanic around for mods, and might eventually use it for and oddball weapon or two.
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WKOB

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #547 on: February 17, 2015, 12:34:58 AM »

Neat, in regards to all of that. Oddball weapons are always good.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #548 on: February 17, 2015, 04:32:27 AM »

So, then, it might actually be best to up the ammo for the Salamander (and Pod) to something like 2-3 bursts worth, keep the refire delay high, and add ammo regen at the rate of the refire delay or thereabouts. Then we'd get the reload rate in the tooltip, it'd work with FMR, and would otherwise remain about the same. Hm.

That's what I did for all missiles (except the regen is lower than the refire for all of them) - it works great. Keeps FMR and +ammo skills useful without being too good because the missile has a sub-5 second refire.

I wish I could say the removal of ammo completely for ballistics was a good thing, but damn it's terrible - refilling clips/pools was the perfect mechanic. All the great balance work you did is gone completely. The most egregious example is probably the Heavy Mauler - which has been overpowered for a long time - that you managed to balance beautifully by giving it a tiny ammo pool without having to take away any of it's other stats. Now it's back to being Ballistic numero uno, the king of Ballistic town.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 05:57:03 AM by DatonKallandor »
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #549 on: February 17, 2015, 05:05:38 AM »

Aw, I, for one, was quite partial to the idea of all guns having to "reload". The latest hotfix notes though.


  • Ballistic weapons: removed ammo/clips; mechanic still exists for modding/possible future use

All ballistics have bottomless mags now? As in, no defined ammo count in weapon_data? I've been doing that anyway to all guns that aren't burst weapons in all mods I've been playing for a few months because I'm not a fan of just kiting all the guns dry and I edit the peak performance away because for similar reasons to kiting the guns dry, I don't like being under pressure to make it a quickie or to sit there and play "Do you feel lucky, punk?" with the AI as our ships crumble into shambles.

But like, that's just gonna be a vanilla thing now?
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #550 on: February 17, 2015, 05:29:44 AM »

I did like the reload mechanic.  Kind of sad to see it go.

(Damn, I wish I'd kept the weapon_data.csv file handy - I meant to do that, and then obviously I forgot.  Does anyone just happen to have that?)
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #551 on: February 17, 2015, 05:44:39 AM »

I did like the reload mechanic.  Kind of sad to see it go.

(Damn, I wish I'd kept the weapon_data.csv file handy - I meant to do that, and then obviously I forgot.  Does anyone just happen to have that?)

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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #552 on: February 17, 2015, 05:45:10 AM »

That was... kind of a quick about-face on the mechanic. Alex you made Assault Chaingun inferior in every way to Heavy Mauler again, I am sad :(

I don't suppose anyone can think of a way to make unskilled mono-Pilum actually worth using ever without making it very OP when massed and/or used with high skills?

(Damn, I wish I'd kept the weapon_data.csv file handy - I meant to do that, and then obviously I forgot.  Does anyone just happen to have that?)
Here you go ninja'd by Silver Silence! (hadn't gotten around to downloading the new version yet, heh)
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Toxcity

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #553 on: February 17, 2015, 05:57:10 AM »

I'm sad to see clips on ballistics go. Like everyone else said it balanced heavy weapons like the heavy mauler, and made them less of a no-brainer choice. I think it would have been better to just give small PD weapons and needlers one large clip, rather than give everything unlimited ammo. Any chance we'll see it come back for ballistics?

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DJ Die

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Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #554 on: February 17, 2015, 06:07:17 AM »

Since we have all those different shield mods....how about a hull mod that allows you to REMOVE the shield generator for another benefit...the shield generator on onslaught is more of a burden than anything else and I dont even bother turning it on...
It doesnt even have to give you more OP to not be too OP, even extra cargo space would do
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