Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18] 19 20 ... 54

Author Topic: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 325209 times)

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #255 on: December 18, 2014, 07:35:24 AM »

@ Captain Pugh:
If there is a ship where using beams for anything other than PD is a good idea, it is the Eagle because it can use ballistics for assault, and beams as supplemental.  Gravitons beams are also good for messing with velocity of small enemy ships.

Capitals can get up to 300 normal crew.  If you want to be absolutely sure on boarding a Conquest, take 200 marines (assuming no Special Ops) and send them in just to be sure.  I am sure 200 is overkill, 100 or so might be enough.

Quote
It can be done well enough if you don't have too much of a speed difference between your different speed/fragility tiers of ships that you deploy.
Unfortunately, enemy flagships with Combat 10, especially those with mobility systems, are lightning bruisers.  If the enemy Eagle/Dominator/Onslaught flagship gets deployed at first, it will be at the front or right behind the lead ships.
Logged

Vulpes

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #256 on: December 18, 2014, 08:01:34 AM »

Snip
I'm not really sure where you're coming from.  In fleet vs fleet ammo will be less of a constraint, so what is the purpose of removing it all together?  It still serves a function, and the CR loss discourages actually relying on ammo regeneration to have long battles.

As for fleet VS fleet, allies might be more worthwhile but solo flagship will still be a thing.  The skills we have now offer more offence than defence (means fights will stay shorter) and if someone can out-play the AI they will make better use of combat skills, so yes it'll be harder to solo things but still perfectly doable regardless of how many skills the AI has.
Logged

Captain Pugh

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #257 on: December 18, 2014, 09:18:28 AM »

Cheers once again for the info Megas: it'll be put to good use. :)

Quote
Unfortunately, enemy flagships with Combat 10, especially those with mobility systems, are lightning bruisers.  If the enemy Eagle/Dominator/Onslaught flagship gets deployed at first, it will be at the front or right behind the lead ships.

And if the enemy has such a souped up ship, and comes to me, then this roughly halves the effects of my ships' speed differences (compared to if he hangs back with his flagship) and he walks into pretty much all of my fleet's firepower at the same time.

*Shrug* There's not much I can say really other than that I've reached Lvl 50, and hunt the highest level bounties, without once using the reinforcements system (or changing flagship during the battle), and pretty much always take out the enemy's flagship (including Onslaughts) and almost all of his fleet, without losing any ships of my own, every time - including when fighting three large and high level bounty fleets back to back when they happen to be clustered right together (as is often the case in Valhalla and Eos).  Without save-scumming.

Honest! :D

This was just to explain my particular playstyle, so readers (including Alex) had a better idea where my opinions were coming from.  This isn't really the place now, but if you'd like to know more (eg sample fleets and their tactics I use) then please feel free to set up a new thread about this, or pm me or whatever you like.

Cheers.
Logged

Linnis

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #258 on: December 18, 2014, 11:31:17 AM »

@megas Primary reason for choosing high tech ships cuz they get unlimited ammo is the problem, maybe we should choose high tech ships for different reasons no?
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #259 on: December 18, 2014, 05:23:18 PM »

@ Captain Pugh:  I have no problem with save-scumming.  Some games even encourage it.

@ Linnis:  It would be nice.  Currently, my close runner-up reason for choosing high tech ships is higher burn speed.  Other secondary reasons vary by ship, mostly due to stats and/or specials.  Aside from that, when all ships get unlimited ammo, I may use more low-tech ships because ballistics are generally better than energy weapons.  Energy weapon niche by then will be among PD/annoyance with beams, spike damage with blasters, or general use with pulse lasers for underpowered ships that cannot use better (e.g., Mule).
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 05:37:55 PM by Megas »
Logged

Linnis

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #260 on: December 19, 2014, 01:41:15 AM »

But beams weapons got a major upgrade now, you can count on them always be out putting their dps more reliably.
Logged

Captain Pugh

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #261 on: December 19, 2014, 02:52:46 AM »

@ Megas: I don't have a problem with save-scumming either, but was just pointing out that I didn't (need to do that in order for my playstyle to work).  I mean, there were a few times, earlier on when I was figuring out the game, where I did save-scum but they all involved losing my irreplaceable (at that time, given the RNG and what was for sale everywhere) flagship.  Now that I run mostly Apogees and Odysseys, with plenty of them spare in storage (from my quest to get an Astral), I don't lose ships - and if I did I could replace it, so don't save-scum now.  Though unashamedly will if it's the only way to get a Conquest.

Lol, though there is one place where I religiously save-scum: when I saw that it was exactly the same button to sell or store your ship :o I knew that this was inevitably going to end in tears at some point, so save (and have had to save-scum here a couple of times) before doing any ship storing.

Hmm, IIRC there's a crossover point where, if you have enough mounts for them, a bunch of Tactical Lasers + PD AI > an equivalent number of PD/LR PD Lasers with no PD AI. I don't think any of the vanilla ships run into this, but some mod ships do - although there's no real sense in balancing the game to mods, so I guess this point is rather moot.

Yeah, the Odyssey's the only vanilla ship (IMO) where this kind of works, with her 12 small energy turrets.  Ends up being about as good vs missiles, awesome against fighters, and gives you a noticeable local damage boost all around.  But the flux!  One of the main times that the AI fires missiles at me is when I'm close to overloading, to try to push my flux over that edge: the last thing I want in that situation is a PD system that runs at almost double the flux of the LRPD - which is why I tend to use LRPDs, with just a few Tac Lasers here and there for anti-fighter use.

I'll give it a good play, with an open mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if I stop using Tac Lasers altogether, on my larger ships, once they start throwing their flux into the pot at 1000m - that's kind of the range I back away to, to cool down.  We'll see.  I'm sure that it'll enormously help the likes of the Starter Wolf though.
Logged

Captain Pugh

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #262 on: December 19, 2014, 03:36:14 AM »

But beams weapons got a major upgrade now, you can count on them always be out putting their dps more reliably.

Would you mind going into how you think that these changes will do what you say they'll do to beams?  If they also got the +25% damage bonus (that non-beam energy weapons will get), in compensation for losing the flux damage boost, then I could see how that could be seen as more reliable dps... but they won't.

I can see how the proposed changes will make some beams better (and worse) in some ways, but can't see anything that constitutes a major upgrade or more reliable dps... maybe I'm missing something that you can see.

PS, my current Admiral favours mostly high tech ships for loads of reasons that I won't go into here too much - but none of those reasons are unlimited ammo.  Mostly it's, 'Fills a niche better than any other ship (IMO), and feels nice to use'.  If a lower tech ship satisfies either or both of those requirements better, she'll use it - regardless of ammo capacity (though that factors into the build).
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #263 on: December 19, 2014, 06:52:05 AM »

Non PD beams will have 1000 range (good except for HIL) and polyhit missiles between intended target, PD beams aside from bursts have more range, beams will cost less OP, and beams fade in-and-out faster.  (Tactical laser is very slow due to fading, the change might make it fast enough for PD against more targets.)

Not sure if those will be enough.  For an all beam ship, it was one case where flux supercharge was very useful, and I wanted hard flux on my ship to prevent dissipation of my damage bonus.  Then again, less OP might mean I can fit more burst PDs on my ships, and the extra range might mean normal PD might be enough instead of LR PD.

Polyhit for tactical lasers with IPDAI might be double-edged sword.  Great for zapping more than one missile, unless the missile is between beam ship and a friendly, then laser might not fire at all due to friendly in the way past the missile.
Logged

Linnis

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #264 on: December 20, 2014, 01:20:29 AM »

beam range is no longer the same range as ballistics means that the high tech AI not only will do damage better, but also stay more safe. A beam ship will be much less likely to instantly die to a few fighters (because of fade reduce they are even better against) or just a few missiles.

Also for the PDAI I do agree with someone in the suggestion noted that it should not friendly fire, so the AI don't screw up so much. Or rather, all PD type weapons should not FF.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #265 on: December 20, 2014, 08:20:52 AM »

Quote
beam range is no longer the same range as ballistics means that the high tech AI not only will do damage better, but also stay more safe.
Not completely true, Maulers (one of the best ballistics in the game, and not too rare) and HVDs have 1000 range too, and they fade away past that, not stop like beams.  Against frigates and other small fry that cannot equip more than one medium weapon and/or have terrible flux dissipation, or AI with mediocre configuration; sure beams will be better.  Also, without flux damage bonus, it will be harder for ships to overcome dissipation.  I guess that is why their OP cost will get lowered.  Beams will need Advanced Optics to outrange ballistics other than Gauss Cannon.
Logged

Captain Pugh

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #266 on: December 21, 2014, 04:42:23 AM »

I could see that these things mentioned would make some beams better in some ways, but worse in others... so couldn't see it as a clear upgrade, but more of a kind of net 'sidegrade' - at least until we get the hard numbers (eg actual OP costs).

Anyway, I've said my piece now, and started a new captain, who plays pretty much the exact opposite of my other main one; which is a nice test of how true my opinions are [most are, some aren't] - so it's back to playing the game, rather than chatting about it, for me.

I look forward to actually playing the new changes, thank the good folks here for their excellent conversation and info, and thank Alex for being such a good sport as the likes of me moan about his coming changes to his baby. :)  If I didn't really love this rare gem of a game, I wouldn't care enough to say anything about it, so it's all motivated by the love of something precious.

Cheers all.
Logged

Linnis

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1009
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #267 on: December 21, 2014, 07:54:14 PM »

Quote
beam range is no longer the same range as ballistics means that the high tech AI not only will do damage better, but also stay more safe.
Not completely true, Maulers (one of the best ballistics in the game, and not too rare) and HVDs have 1000 range too, and they fade away past that, not stop like beams.  Against frigates and other small fry that cannot equip more than one medium weapon and/or have terrible flux dissipation, or AI with mediocre configuration; sure beams will be better.  Also, without flux damage bonus, it will be harder for ships to overcome dissipation.  I guess that is why their OP cost will get lowered.  Beams will need Advanced Optics to outrange ballistics other than Gauss Cannon.

and advanced optics is super easy to get and cost very little op..
Logged

Abradolf Lincler

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #268 on: December 21, 2014, 08:48:13 PM »

What I don't understand is if ammo doesn't do anything, why remove it? I have had times when I ran at of ammo, so why waste time removing it when you could do something else?
Logged

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #269 on: December 22, 2014, 12:32:22 AM »

What I don't understand is if ammo doesn't do anything, why remove it? I have had times when I ran at of ammo, so why waste time removing it when you could do something else?
^ THIS!
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18] 19 20 ... 54