Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 54

Author Topic: Starsector 0.65.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 325280 times)

Maelstrom

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #195 on: December 10, 2014, 10:07:35 AM »

Could you add ground battles for the next major update please!
You could use the top looking view and use all the current battle settings, would just need to tweak things to behave like ground vehicles but I am pretty sure a lot of people would really like it!

Btw, I really love this update, makes the game feel much more alive!
Logged

HELMUT

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #196 on: December 10, 2014, 01:50:53 PM »

The fast missile rack system might need to be reworked. The only thing that prevent the salamander to be broken is the 20 seconds reload time. Only 4 ships have this system and can avoid the long reload time: the Condor, the Vigilance, the Venture and the Doom.

The Venture might become overpowered with it. You can mount 2 medium salamanders pods and 2 small ones, that's a volley of 10 mrms with a very short reload time. The Doom can throw 12 in a single volley however it's not as cheap as the Venture. The Vigilance might also become a pretty nightmarish cheap fire support.

DR thought about giving fast missile rack a cooldown between two use. It would be a sizable nerf to those 4 ships but at least will prevent the salamanders storm.

Another possibility would be to make the salamanders like the other two, ammo that slowly regenerate rather than infinite.
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3786
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #197 on: December 10, 2014, 02:23:36 PM »

I'd second the suggestion of putting a cooldown on fast missile racks, simply because that's how the AI uses it - right now, a player-piloted Vigilance has a major advantage over an AI one in being able to use FSM multiple times in rapid succession.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

CrashToDesktop

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #198 on: December 10, 2014, 06:03:58 PM »

I'd second the suggestion of putting a cooldown on fast missile racks, simply because that's how the AI uses it - right now, a player-piloted Vigilance has a major advantage over an AI one in being able to use FSM multiple times in rapid succession.
Actually, I've seen an AI-controlled Vigilence completely go ham on my Enforcer.  I happened to think the same thing, but when I wandered up to one of them armed with Reaper torpedos with just moderately high flux, I lost my beloved Enforcer in about 10 seconds.  Surprised the hell out of me when that happened.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 06:07:55 PM by The Soldier »
Logged
Quote from: Trylobot
I am officially an epoch.
Quote from: Thaago
Note: please sacrifice your goats responsibly, look up the proper pronunciation of Alex's name. We wouldn't want some other project receiving mystic power.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23988
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #199 on: December 10, 2014, 06:38:21 PM »

Yeah, Fast Missile Racks seems to be ok. I tried it out on the Venture, with a full Salamander loadout (8 per volley, as the pod launches 2 each, not 4). It's murderously good vs non-omni-shield frigates, and it makes the Venture a good missile support ship (and a capable one in AI hands if you link the Salamander group instead of making it alternating). At the same time, if it uses the boost constantly, it'll max out on flux fairly quickly, so we're really talking about "missiles that cost flux" in this context. It's more interesting and different than overpowered, at least based on my impressions from messing with it just now.

Could you add ground battles for the next major update please!
You could use the top looking view and use all the current battle settings, would just need to tweak things to behave like ground vehicles but I am pretty sure a lot of people would really like it!

Btw, I really love this update, makes the game feel much more alive!

Thanks! Ah, I'm afraid explicit ground combat isn't in the plan at all. The game is already quite ambitious, adding in ground combat at the same level of detail as the space combat would be pretty much making a whole new game. I see what you're saying re: using the same engine, but I don't think that's actually very practical if you dig into it.


I'm going to miss the flux bonus. There were certainly situations where it was very relevant and central to my tactics. A few days ago I spent a long while seeing how far I could push a single Wolf, and I learned that my best option was to take advantage of the damage boost by riding the edge of flux overload. It was extremely rewarding and fun to be able to take such a risk and to pull it off successfuly. After this change, the risk-reward tradeoff is gone and there is no reason for me to do anything else than vent completely after every strike and tank with the shield instead of dodging. Boring.

I strongly dislike taking features out because they aren't applicable to most situations. Even if three out of four players never care, it's still there to provide more choice and enhance the experience for those that choose to take advantage of it. Even if flux boost is only relevant to a handful ships played in a specific way, it makes these ships more unique, interesting and worth playing.

Matter of opinion: where you see streamlining and removal of clutter, I see flattening the game and removal of nuance.

The exact same argument could be made for ballistic ammo.

I get what you're saying, but there are a couple more things to consider here. One is that this is something the AI couldn't take advantage of at all, so that's immediately problematic. ("Better AI" wouldn't necessarily help much here - the AI has to play it safe to be a useful ally, so taking chances is fundamentally at odds with that mechanic.) Two is that the feature was awkward in that there just aren't enough mechanics around explicitly controlling your flux levels. So, yes, it's a removal of nuance, but it's not the "good" kind of nuance imo. It had some upside, certainly, but it had its share of problems as well.

I mean, I do understand your point, but as you say, it's a matter of opinion - otherwise, one might consider *any* random mechanic thrown in as adding nuance, you know? Making judgment calls about what to cut and what to keep is probably one of the most important things in trying to create a coherent design. Again, though, it definitely is subjective to a large extent. Personally, I never felt like the high flux damage mechanic worked out as it was originally envisioned, which plays into me being unhappy with it.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #200 on: December 10, 2014, 07:00:35 PM »

Fast Missile Racks speed up regeneration time of Salamanders and Pilums?  I may find a way to abuse those with a Doom or Vigilance, maybe.
Logged

Toxcity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 561
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #201 on: December 10, 2014, 07:35:02 PM »

I think it only works on Salamanders given that they have infinite ammo and a 20 sec cooldown.
Logged

WKOB

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Odobenidine Benefactor
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #202 on: December 10, 2014, 08:16:37 PM »

Quote
Removed energy weapon bonus damage from high flux level
Standardized range to 1000 for most non-PD, from Tactical Laser to HIL
Salamander: both versions have unlimited ammo and require 20 seconds to reload
Hurricane MIRV: regenerates 1 ammo every 20 seconds
Pilum LRM: regenerates 1 ammo every 10 seconds
Now have unlimited ammo, except for Bomb Bay

Whoa! What made you decide that all of the weapons needed to feel and act the exact same, instead of being nice and diverse like they are now?
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23988
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #203 on: December 10, 2014, 08:27:51 PM »

The reasoning for all the changes is laid out in my previous posts in this thread... several times, actually :)

In brief: I can see how it looks like a move towards homogeneity, but imo the important differentiators remain intact, while design cruft gets cleaned out.
Logged

Zapier

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #204 on: December 11, 2014, 01:15:30 AM »

Yeah, I can see some of the alarm about the changes possibly pointing in a direction of becoming more similar, but I don't see how anyone could say those changes suddenly make them all similar. There's so much more to all the weapons systems than just range and ammo, and in my opinion they are the more important features like damage amount, damage type, flux, OP cost and more.
Logged

Histidine

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4661
    • View Profile
    • GitHub profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #205 on: December 11, 2014, 03:25:49 AM »

Range is a pretty fundamental characteristic and one that should show variation though.
Logged

Vind

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #206 on: December 11, 2014, 04:15:53 AM »

Maybe change damage of the beams so they damage more then target is closer and damage less then target beyond optimal range? Same ranges for all types of beams is hard to accept game play wise.
Logged

Clockwork Owl

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
    • View Profile
    • Starsector South Korean Community
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #207 on: December 11, 2014, 04:29:43 AM »

My opinion at beam weapon changes: At least keep the HIL`s...
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #208 on: December 11, 2014, 05:17:25 AM »

I will trade a little range on HIL for cheaper OP cost.  That weapon is useless when Autopulse Laser outperforms it in every way for the same OP cost.  Extra range is worthless when enemy can shield tank beams indefinitely.
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.65.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #209 on: December 11, 2014, 06:23:44 AM »

A sarcastic post, no offense, just thought it's funny. ;D

Along the lines of streamlining game mechanics by removing ballistic ammo and the flux damage bonus, what if "Flux" is flipped around and called "Energy" instead?

Firing weapons consume Energy, shields require Energy deflect damage, "Overload" becomes "Shutdown" when Energy runs out, "Venting" becomes "Recharge", "Flux Vents" becomes "Energy Generators", and Hard Flux happens because shields drain too much power causing capacitor plates to stick together and so shields need to be off to unstick the capacitors.

Gameplay will be totally the same, but much more intuitive to someone who just bought the game. Flux what? why is my ship sparking when this bar gets full???
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 06:26:06 AM by goduranus »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 54