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Author Topic: Setting AI?  (Read 4835 times)

Blaze

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Setting AI?
« on: November 12, 2014, 05:19:43 PM »

So I'm playing Starsector+, and I finally realized that my small-ship tactics just aren't going to cut it against bigger fleets of improved ships. So I went and got myself some fire support in the form of the Archer destroyer (3x M-Missile + Missile Loader + Misc slots + Expanded Missile Racks + ECCM). The idea is that I head up front and distract them while the archer shreds them with massed Pilums and retreat once it runs out.

The problem is that, despite ordering it to defend a waypoint at the rear of the map it drags itself to the frontlines where it has no business being. Even more, it seems to never use its Speedloader unless I take command of it myself.

Is there some way to fix this?
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 05:29:44 PM »

There is a known quirk of the AI that if you do not give the ship any non-missile weapons it will hug the enemy.  Attach some light autocannons or something to the ship.

Which missiles are you using?  The fast missile racks system really depends on what you're using and which situation the ship is in.

The defend order not working sounds like a bug though.  Maybe you should contact Alex?
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Blaze

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 05:41:02 PM »

I have a pair of dual flaks on the two fixed MBallistic HPs up front, to help kill off any incoming missiles. I have 3 empty rear turrets (Their arcs all face backwards so they're useless to me).

I'm using Pilums X 3 for the 3 MMissile slots.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 06:31:42 PM »

That is very odd.  It's possible that Alex has never run into this because the only other ship that acts like the Archer is the Buffalo Mk 2.
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Alex

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 07:57:55 PM »

Hmm. "Defend" can have a fairly long leash, for missile fire support I would suggest trying "rally task force" (i.e. select the ship and right-click roughly where you want it to stay). It should stick around in that area, though it'll move around a bit if threatened by nearby enemies. If *that* doesn't work, there's a problem.
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Blaze

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 09:19:23 PM »

Using Rally TF seems to have worked; it'll still run towards the enemy if they get too close; but that's fairly easy to remedy by sending them to the sides.

It still won't use its reloader though.
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Alex

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 09:23:24 PM »

Ok, cool!

It still won't use its reloader though.

Don't know about that - it's a mod-specific ship system, and thus likely has a special AI modded in.
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Blaze

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 09:29:06 PM »

I'm fairly certain fast missile reloader is a vanilla ShipSys; the Vigilance uses it.
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Alex

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 09:32:45 PM »

Ah, you mean "fast missile racks". Thought you meant something different :)

Would have to see the actual ship setup and behavior to be able to say. I mean, it works in the general case (i.e. ships like the Vigilance and the Venture use it), so something must be different here.
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Blaze

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 11:42:53 PM »

Bought a Vigilance, put a pilum and a taclaser on it, and it still won't use its FMR.

There must be something else going on.

Edit: Okay, so I was completely mistaken; it DOES use its FMR, but it never does it more than once per missile reload cycle. So it fires one burst, FMRs, fire a second burst, and then wait to reload. I don't know why it does that, but I'm assuming it's part of the AI script to help preserve missiles or some form of balance (throwing out 52 pilums on a vigilance; Or 156 in case of the archer all at once would be more than a bit OP.), .

I specced the Archer so that it would be able to constantly use its FMR without having flux issues, so this is a bit of an annoyance.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 12:03:37 AM by Blaze »
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heskey30

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 11:06:46 AM »

Hm, if I remember right, FMR were changed. They used to have a cooldown of about one pilum reload cycle I think? And they don't anymore, just use flux? Maybe the AI wasn't updated. But do you really want them unloading all their ammo on one guy at the beginning of the fight? It would probably be a hound half the time, and it would probably dodge every single missile.
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Alex

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 11:10:23 AM »

Ah, right. Yeah, that's pretty much it - the AI is being intentionally conservative with its missile use. I think it generally makes more sense to do it that way; unloading a cloud of Pilums all at once is often just going to waste them - think a few well-placed Flak shots, or the aforementioned Hound. Detecting the cases where it's a good idea is not something the AI can take a reasonable shot at, I don't think. For one, it'd often be a gamble, and so not a decision the AI should make.
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Gothars

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 11:55:19 AM »

Uh, just now I had a Vigilance make extensive use of its FMR in an escape scenario. Against a overloaded target, mind you. Was a pretty glorious sight to see it ride in ontop a wave of about 15 Pilums.

Also had enemy Condors make extensive use of FMR when I got too close.


I think the AI is absolutely brilliant with missiles now, it strikes a great balance between conservatism and opportunism. Especially being high flux in the middle of an enemy formation and suddenly having dozens of missiles incoming from all sides, as if they planned and coordinated just his maneuver, is truly terrifying.
 
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neptix

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 12:11:29 PM »

This is why my standard hunting pack is now a wolf and 6 vigilance's.  I deploy the wolf alone, bust up a few smaller ships, cerberi and lashers, etc, then lure the big stuff down to the bottom of the map, to when I deploy my vigilance's, they all fire a full volley immediately.  That surprise hit has taken out eagles in one wave before :)
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Thaago

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Re: Setting AI?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 01:03:08 PM »

Uh, just now I had a Vigilance make extensive use of its FMR in an escape scenario. Against a overloaded target, mind you. Was a pretty glorious sight to see it ride in ontop a wave of about 15 Pilums.

Also had enemy Condors make extensive use of FMR when I got too close.


I think the AI is absolutely brilliant with missiles now, it strikes a great balance between conservatism and opportunism. Especially being high flux in the middle of an enemy formation and suddenly having dozens of missiles incoming from all sides, as if they planned and coordinated just his maneuver, is truly terrifying.
 

I'm very happy with Vigilances and their FMR usage - they pump out about double missiles on average, which is not minor. Haven't played around with them with the Harpoon pod or the Typhoon Reaper. My biggest gripe is actually that the ECCM hullmod is too expensive to put both that and larger racks on - considering its a level 7 tech in a tree dedicated solely to missiles it would be nice to be able to use it more. Eh, minor thing.
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