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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Harpoons' odd tracking system  (Read 3711 times)

flanker37t

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Harpoons' odd tracking system
« on: October 27, 2014, 04:13:52 AM »

Hello everybody. Soon after starting my first 0.65a game (headhunter, Wolf-class) I noticed that Harpoons are kinda less useful than before.

Let me elaborate: in previous versions of Starsector, Harpoons flew in a more-or-less straight line. They locked a target and followed it until hit. That's what I was expecting in my first combat in 0.65. Alas, these missiles behaved funny: they flew in snake-like patterns (probably trying to dodge PD, I don't know). Well, that would be really cool, only if they actually managed to hit their target. But no. They wobbled, curved their paths more and more and finally both Harpoons missed an overloaded Lasher. I fired a couple more, with only one resulting hit. So, 4 Harpoons + 1 overloaded Lasher = 1 hit. "Oh well, maybe I did something wrong" I thought and finished the enemy with cannons.

But this odd behaviour didn't stop. My Harpoons are widely inaccurate. They managed to miss a Hammerhead. Now, if I encounter a frigate, I never use Harpoons, because of their utter uselessness.

So, the question is: am I dumb and this is intended or what?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 04:16:36 AM by flanker37t »
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 04:31:42 AM »

you must be doing something wrong or being unlucky, harpoons are one of the single strongest missiles in the game, it rarely misses, and its very hard to dodge. my harpoons never miss, and they tent to outright kill anything smaller than a destroyer.
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Megas

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 04:58:56 AM »

Harpoons sidewind enough that they cannot be relied on to hit frigates.
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Histidine

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 05:20:46 AM »

On the other hand if you missed a Hammerhead then I have to speculate that you either fired it badly offbore at close range or the target was somehow able to maneuver way faster than a destroyer should (probably both).
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 05:36:40 AM by Histidine »
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Megas

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 05:23:18 AM »

Harpoons can miss destroyers too, but unlike frigates, it is rare enough to be insignificant.
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Oathseeker

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 05:24:02 AM »

Harpoons are awesome, but when fired at close range they tend to circle the enemy when they dodge it. If you want a missile to fire from close range, go with the annihilator.
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flanker37t

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 08:27:00 AM »

Thanks for all the comments, guys. Indeed, that Hammerhead miss was the only case of Harpoon missing something bigger than a frigate, so it's allright. I guess I'll just have to adapt my firing range versus frigates.
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ahrenjb

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 09:12:58 AM »

Keep in mind, the Harpoon is an MRM, intended to be fired at medium distances. The tracking system is optimized to function at that range. If fired at short range, the likelihood of a hit does decrease. If you want missiles to be fired at point blank, try an SRM.
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DeltaV_11.2

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 09:36:15 AM »

Harpoon's tracking indeed sometimes causes misses against frigates. It's very good though for evading PD from destroyers and up which are really the missile's intended targets. The other missiles in game do a better job of handling frigates- Swarmers, Sabot, etc.
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CopperCoyote

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 11:25:09 AM »

Overall i feel like the wobbles are an improvement over the old behavior.

I fire harpoons in pairs against frigates even if i only need one to open the armor up. If i'm fighting a frigate that i just want to scare into keeping it's shield up too long then i'll fire it in close range. I like that at close range they loop back and end up flanking kinda like salamanders do. Against destroyers and above the wobbles mean you can fire them in groups and they strip of lots of armor instead of just slamming the same useless armor over and over leaving you with only a small path to the hull. It is kind of bad on heavily armored ships like dominator though. You may not even get to the hull with 4 missiles. They are still having a bad time when that happens I suppose.
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Gothars

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 12:16:14 PM »

Yeah, the Harpoon sure has changed. You can't effectively kill Piranha bombers at a distance with Harpoons anymore. You can effectively fire them into the shield gap on the rear of Core-epoch ships. ANd the other stuff that was mentioned.

On the other hand the Pillum seems much better suited for these tasks with its higher speed. A small slot version might be able to take over some of the old Harpoon roles.
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Thaago

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 01:40:20 PM »

I think the Harpoons are good - I'm finding that they hit a lot more often than they used to.

I've been playing around with Vigilances as support ships - with the ECCM package Pilums maneuver almost as well as Harpoons. The lethality boost against enemy frigates is remarkable.
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Aereto

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Re: Harpoons' odd tracking system
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 09:34:03 PM »

Keep in mind, the Harpoon is an MRM, intended to be fired at medium distances. The tracking system is optimized to function at that range. If fired at short range, the likelihood of a hit does decrease. If you want missiles to be fired at point blank, try an SRM.
Reapers can be done at point blank (although extra risky), but it doesn't count as a missile.  :P

But yes, MRM is intended as Mid-Range launching. Same with an aircraft trying to shoot down a plane at 500 meters with missiles. Unless the pilot knows where they usually fly to on launch before locking, good chance they miss because they cannot turn tight enough.

Still... having them circle around on miss for the PD weapons to aim elsewhere is a mixed blessing.
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