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Author Topic: Planetary Battles  (Read 2847 times)

jupjupy

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Planetary Battles
« on: October 26, 2014, 08:46:23 AM »

Did a quick search before I posted, but didnt go all the way back so please bear with me if I happen to be repeating something someone else has said before.

With the new patch, and the mechanics that come with it, such as clear orbital stations and fleets that stick around in a planets orbit to do whatever, I was wondering what the community thought about having a different - not widely different - kind of battle that would take place within a certain distance of a planet, such as the radius at which fleets currently orbit or something like that.

The thing I noticed is that, when engaging these fleets or similar fast pickets and stuff as you approach a planet, it becomes a little weird. Suddenly there are these nebula out of nowhere that somehow pop up in high-orbit, slowing your ships and stuff, and communications relays, sensor bouys, and nav points that arent in any particular ownership. It strikes me that, above Jangala, for example, the Hegemony forces don't bother to deploy some of their own sensor relays or whatever that can clearly be seen in battle. Also, asteroids. Why are there asteroids?

My thought was that perhaps there could be some mechanic where fighting in the orbit of the planet would have different effects on ones ships. Instead of nebulas, it could be that the planet's atmosphere (though I do believe there isnt actually an effect when you're that high up), shortens the range of weapons, or dampens lateral motion like the nebulas do. Instead of asteroids, it could be random space junk that has accumulated over the years, especially over industrialised planets. Perhaps the planetary guns or orbital station defenses could play a role in the battle, especially when fighting faction fleets. Perhaps the specific characteristics of the planet could change the battle, like how fighting when over an asteroid field does.

I'm not quite sure how difficult this would be to implement, but I just thought I'd post my thoughts. Also, I hate nebulas.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 09:19:57 AM »

Well, remember that the in-battle buoys and stuff are deployed from ships.


But! I like the rest of it a lot. Why shouldn't a defending fleet get a home field advantage? It also goes along with some ideas I've seen pop in other threads. Like partially active ship hulks when you fight in an area that recently had a battle, or more asteroids (a veritable thicket) when you fight in an asteroid field.

Variety in the tactical maps based on where you are on the campaign map would be awesome.
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Debido

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 09:48:09 AM »

I remember a recent post about certain conditions like an EMP storm in a battle. Perhaps when attacking near a planet, and they own the planet - long range missiles with unlimited range are launched from the enemies side periodically - to emulate long range missiles being fired from the surface of the planet to help defend.
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Megas

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2014, 09:51:02 AM »

It could be that battles not in space will be like boarding; just send in enough marines and the base is yours.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2014, 10:00:22 AM »

It could be that battles not in space will be like boarding; just send in enough marines and the base is yours.

This thread has nothing to do with ground battles. It is clearly about orbital battles.

I remember a recent post about certain conditions like an EMP storm in a battle. Perhaps when attacking near a planet, and they own the planet - long range missiles with unlimited range are launched from the enemies side periodically - to emulate long range missiles being fired from the surface of the planet to help defend.

I think that's a good idea. It would give a huge advantage to the defending fleet, but that's fair. The question is, under what conditions should this happen? Or should it just happen in every battle that's close enough to a friendly planet?

Your frigate vs. a pair of Hegemony frigates at the beginning of the game: should the planetary defense be firing in this case? How will it tell the difference between a lone smuggler and an Uber frigate (that needs to be blasted with as many missiles as possible)? Should pirate bases get missiles?

A lot of questions that must be answered, but that doesn't make an idea bad.
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Debido

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 10:05:14 AM »

Well, I'm not sure exactly how much information we can get, but you can probably do things like...get the radius of the planet, get the distance from the outside of the planet or whatever..you have a distance from the planet. Anyway, based upon the distance from the planet the battle occurs, it determines how frequently the missiles are fired from the planet.

As for how does it tell the difference? Well hand-wavium techno-babblium - doesn't matter, the scripting for targeting the player with a missile is trivial on the coders end. Pick a random player ship, launch LRM.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 10:55:21 AM »

Ah, you misinterpreted me. I mean: should the missiles be fired at all if its just a few smugglers being intercepted? And then, how can the game tell the difference between a lone smuggling player, and a player who is running a single uber-OP ship? One doesn't really need to be blasted with missiles, and the other is along the lines of, "FIRE THE MISSILES!! ALL THE MISSILES!!!!" It could be dynamic: if a fleet starts taking too heavy casualties from a small fleet (large fleets would already be getting pounded with missiles), then the fleet would call in support from the defense batteries.

I think making the missiles fire less the further from the planet you are is a bit odd. Perhaps a delay between the start of the match and when the missiles start arriving based on the distance from the planet/station, but the missiles always arrive with the same density and regularity. Then the distance at which this missile support could happen would be limited to the range of the missiles.

Perhaps only big, bulky missiles are fired at extreme ranges, but once you get closer to the planet smaller, quicker missiles start getting mixed in. Lots of interesting variables that could be played with here.
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Debido

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 11:07:14 AM »

Should missiles be fired at all....why not!

Also the other thing is that you could have it tied to a market condition like the stealth minefield. If you attack a planet with a stealth minefield, wouldn't it be cool if you actually had to FIGHT in a stealth minefield? Or terrifying? either way.

And you could also have 'missile defense' as a market condition, and that orbital laser on jangala? Yeah, you can bet that could be used to dematerialise hulls from a distance as well. So not only can you have these market conditions actually have a real effect on the stability of the market, it has a real effect in combat.......
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I'm totally going to add this feature to the UAF mod.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 01:18:41 PM »

I can now see Starsector being modded to be like an anime starfighter game. Huge alerts on screen before giant lasers carve up parts of the battlefield. Lots of explosions. Much flashy.


Stealth minefields. They're not invisible, it's just that you tend to lose track of them in combat. Big mistake. Bonus points if they move slowly.

You use that tiny phase cloak that is on the Terminator drone and have it always running till the mine drops into real space to detonate. Now should the mines be "AVOID ME OR DIE," or should they be more along the lines of, "SURPRISE! *boom*"? One is death and the other is merely unpleasant. We can always have variety: EMP mines; mines that aren't stealthed, but instead have large blast radii and flak guns to keep fighters off them (blatantly stealing that from the dead Dawn of Victory mod for SoaSE); or anything else you can think of.

Most mines should be completely safe from normal ships, except perhaps for a second or a half when they decloak to detonate. You just have to deal with your pain. Or enjoy them if they're on your side.

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Then there's the question of minesweeping ships. IF they exist, there's several ways they could be implemented. They could be active combat vessels that have to actually go in and attack the mines, or they could just grant a passive bonus (like tow cables on tugs) that reduces the amount of mines against you.

I would force mine-laying craft to actually have to go into combat to drop their mines. In most battles, both forces arrive in the battle area at the same time, so there is no time to pre-lay mines.
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Side idea off the minesweeper idea: A ship system that deactivates phase cloaks in a moderate radius around it. Maybe even blocks phase space completely (skimmers and teleporters). That would cover the minesweeper role without having to have a dedicated minesweeper, since a ship with this system would be more about fighting advanced phase ships.
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jupjupy

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2014, 11:06:21 PM »

Stealth minefields. They're not invisible, it's just that you tend to lose track of them in combat. Big mistake. Bonus points if they move slowly.

I like this idea. Might be great especially around pirate planets.

In general, I was just gunning for the idea of more differences in map layout when entering a battle. Feels a little too static right now. I remember how in FTL (despite how awesome that game is), battles used to be fairly similar, and even when you were fighting an enemy fighter even amongst a fleet of Rebel battlecruisers... nothing seemed to happen. Then they introduced Anti-Ship Batteries and suddenly everything became a race to not get hit by a big cannonball of doom.

And you could also have 'missile defense' as a market condition, and that orbital laser on jangala? Yeah, you can bet that could be used to dematerialise hulls from a distance as well. So not only can you have these market conditions actually have a real effect on the stability of the market, it has a real effect in combat.......

I love it! Market conditions that shoot back at you? Maybe "Missile Defense" could increase a station's demand for missile-based weaponry, while also having a wider variety in stock (I'm looking at you, Pilum LRM Launcher).

Just my two cents.
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Debido

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Re: Planetary Battles
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 11:34:18 PM »

I have a lot of other things to do before I can get to this kind of mod, but I'll do a quick check to see if I can pull the position of the player fleet from the campaign map, and objects nearby into a meaningful check and lost of variables with which to do this kind of thing.
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