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Author Topic: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf  (Read 16044 times)

StarSchulz

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How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« on: October 26, 2014, 12:38:45 AM »

This game is amazing,  but out of all the kinds of ships i find the high tech ships like the wolf, apogee and others like them very strange to fly. I die repeatedly trying to figure them out, and usually end up allying with the Hegemony, buying a falcon and cramming my fleet with whatever else is lying around.
I've heard of people soloing cruisers in a wolf... and i have problems fighting a lasher in a wolf. anyone got any good tips? i like the ships the Tri-Tachyons fly but i cant use em fer nothin   :P


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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 12:48:05 AM »

This game is amazing,  but out of all the kinds of ships i find the high tech ships like the wolf, apogee and others like them very strange to fly. I die repeatedly trying to figure them out, and usually end up allying with the Hegemony, buying a falcon and cramming my fleet with whatever else is lying around.
I've heard of people soloing cruisers in a wolf... and i have problems fighting a lasher in a wolf. anyone got any good tips? i like the ships the Tri-Tachyons fly but i cant use em fer nothin   :P


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What loadouts do you use for them? Do you use mouse or keyboard steering? (Does the ship turn to your cursor)
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StarSchulz

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 10:10:28 AM »

mouse and keyboard, i usually turn toward them and stay focused toward them with the mouse on them and using shift. Last time i used the wolf i had just the standard loadout, the one the campaign gives you.
i lost an odyssey that had an autopulse laser, high frequency laser, a mix of tactical and burst PD lasers.  ( couldn't find a weapon for the right side so i slapped on a heavy blaster )

Aereto

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2014, 10:45:02 AM »

I admit that I'm not good with the wolf, especially when I am much better with the graviton beam (effective vs shields despite being a beam). Heavy blasters feel... cumbersome, especially when I use a laptop that have a trackpad and mousepad to do the cursor duties. As a result, I move the cursor for the sake of seeing enemy positions, and bind the firing keys near my movement keys or let autofire do its duties.

My piloting style is better suited to the Afflictor, a Phase Frigate with an efficient cloaking system. I learn when and where to strike, and usually find the gap between defenses to make them explode at one shot. Thus, I may use all 4 AM Blasters at once or have 2 AMs and 2 Reapers if I am expecting opportunistic engagements.

A Hyperion may be frail, but shines well as a pursuit/harasser frigate due to its unique teleporter system. It's a matter of having enough ordinance to fit it into a lethal force in the hands of the right player styles.

I find myself piloting the Afflictor personally as a ship assassin while the rest of the forces either take the brunt of the enemies, hold them off, or eradicate the thinned out. That requires tactics, and I emphasize defending sensor posts in engagements or navigation posts in pursuits.

Maintaining a combat-effective fleet has its difficulty increased with the economy systems and faction restrictions.
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MasterGlink

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 09:15:38 PM »

Pre-patch:

My favorite ships were the Wolf-class and Medusa-class. First thing I tried to get was the front shield generator so I could mount that and buff the heck out of my shields with whatever I could fit on it. Weapons-wise on my Wolf-class I had a couple of Sabot SRMs, Tactical Lasers and a Heavy Blaster. My Medusa was kitted out with dual Railguns, Sabot SRMs and Heavy Blasters.

I liked playing by using the sustained fire from the Lasers or Railguns to raise my targets Flux, and once at 80%-90%, I would unleash a salvo of Sabot SRMs to cripple the enemy systems. If successful, the enemy was defenseless and overloaded. At which point I unleashed hell with my Heavy Blaster fire, usually obliterating the ships in a two shots or less.

I used the Apogee in a similar fashion, though I believe I upgraded to MIRV, and had some Antimatter blasters instead.

Now:

I'm still finding my way around the Wolf-class. The new frontal shield is quite a nerf to my strategy, since I can no longer get a larger shield until I unlock the Extended ones. They're much more fragile as well, so I have to change up my style a bit. Currently, I'm rocking a Pulse Laser for pressure and some Harpoon MRMs as finishers, and some LR PD Lasers for support. It's still plenty lethal, but you need a bit more finesse while piloting it, and you can no longer tank with your shield as well as it used to... yet.
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kazi

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 10:40:16 PM »

Apogee + stabilized shields = best ship in game. Just put an autopulse laser on the front + 2 antimatter blasters and you're good to go. Nothing besides a capital can take the shields down (360 degrees) and you can burst down pretty much anything you come across.
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CopperCoyote

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 10:43:18 PM »

Except for the phase ships high tech ships have very thin armor. You need to defend primarily with your shields and use their decent to great speed to dictate the flow of combat so you can vent when needed. I personally use strafe to mouse for all the high tech ships except for the aurora sometimes and the odyssey most the time.

Energy weapons are pretty much the only armament high tech ships use; though some have a good amount of missiles too. Energy weapons don't all do equally well against all things despite their average damage modifiers. The very basic breakdown is high ROF weapons with low per shot damage(like pulse laser) are better against shields, and low ROF high shot damage weapons like heavy blaster are better against armor.

For the wolf in particular i like extended shields and hardened subsystems. The shields are fixed forward facing so with the extra 30 degrees on each side it'll make it easier to catch salamanders on your shields as you backpedal away from them. Its CR timer is a bit problematic for long engagements, and with hardened subsystems i almost never have to tell it to retreat do to CR loss. The wolf doesn't need unstable injector or augmented engines because it's so fast, but if you're going to be fighting primarily other high tech ships it'll make your fight easier if you have them. If you are going to be primarily piloting it your self you can get away with skimping a little on the PD. Except for sabots(which you should dodge with your skimmer) you shouldn't be shy about catching missiles with your shields. Wolves have a fairly nice shield strength. They also have a better than average flux pool. Also on a wolf you'll always want as many vents as you can fit. I go for 10 or more if i can.

Here is a decent all around Support wolf build:
Spoiler
Pulse laser
3X LR PD
2X harpoon
Hardened subsystems
7 vents

You can drop the hardened subsystem if you're only fighting fleets of frigates about the same size as yours. You can use this at level 1 with no skills invested in tech and if you lose it the weapons aren't too hard to come by. Getting a replacement wolf is a little harder, but even the hegemony has them sometimes so it isn't the hardest ship to replace.
It's biggest weakness is getting swarmed with fighters or protracted engagements when the CR timer can run out. You're probably going to want to save the harpoons for opening the armor up on your enemy ships because using a pulse laser to do it takes ages. The AI can use this ship just  fine
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Strike wolf
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Mining Blaster
2X Burst PD
2X Swarmer SRM
Resistant flux conduits
8 capacitors
20 vents

The goal of this ship is to swoop in do a ton of armor damage with the mining blaster and phase skip out to active vent. The swarmers are either to tie up the enemy PD weapons so thy aren't causing your flux to rise, or to shoot screening fighters with to hopefully knock their engines offline and put them out of the fight for a bit. The PD lasers are on the rear two small turrets so you have decent PD coverage. Be sure to hide behind a friendly while you vent because even with the increased venting from the RFC and the combat skill it could take a little bit. The mining blaster has short range so you're necessarily going to have to be very aggressive. You need tech 10 and combat 5 to make    this ship. The AI can't use this ship well.
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Pursuit wolf
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Pulse laser
Ion cannon
2X LR PD
2X harpoon
Insulated engine assembly
RFC
Extended shields
stabilized shields
8 capacitors
14 Vents

This ship is good at harrying fleeing enemy ships. I have the extender and stabilizer on there so i can just run past the shower enemy ships with my shields up chasing the faster fleeing frigates. The IEA and RFC are so you're less likely to get a flame out. I you do they'll nearly always get away. The ion cannon is on the front and center small turret. It has autofire turned off. This ship is primarily geared toward hunting pirates so the ion c. ruins hounds, cerberus, and tarsus ships. I have missile spec 5 so i get 4 missiles for the cost of 2. I only use one per disabled enemy ship, and rarely on hounds because ion c. doesn't stop flares from ruining your shot. The AI does ok with this. They shoot both missiles at hounds frustratingly often, but they at least know to not shoot the ion c. at shields now.
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If more clarification is needed i'll be happy to help.
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Elthari

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 09:04:44 AM »

I'm still finding my way around the Wolf-class. The new frontal shield is quite a nerf to my strategy, since I can no longer get a larger shield until I unlock the Extended ones. They're much more fragile as well, so I have to change up my style a bit. Currently, I'm rocking a Pulse Laser for pressure and some Harpoon MRMs as finishers, and some LR PD Lasers for support. It's still plenty lethal, but you need a bit more finesse while piloting it, and you can no longer tank with your shield as well as it used to... yet.

You should totally try the Medusa once more.
It is a very frail destroyer, but with a proper layout, one Medusa lays waste to most fleets, except for bonused capital ships. Though this is more of an end-game solution, when you have at least two critical combat skills maxed (Speed boost up to 25% flux, 20% hard flux dissipation).
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PixiCode

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 11:21:09 AM »

I'm still finding my way around the Wolf-class. The new frontal shield is quite a nerf to my strategy, since I can no longer get a larger shield until I unlock the Extended ones. They're much more fragile as well, so I have to change up my style a bit. Currently, I'm rocking a Pulse Laser for pressure and some Harpoon MRMs as finishers, and some LR PD Lasers for support. It's still plenty lethal, but you need a bit more finesse while piloting it, and you can no longer tank with your shield as well as it used to... yet.

You should totally try the Medusa once more.
It is a very frail destroyer, but with a proper layout, one Medusa lays waste to most fleets, except for bonused capital ships. Though this is more of an end-game solution, when you have at least two critical combat skills maxed (Speed boost up to 25% flux, 20% hard flux dissipation).

It can be early game, too, but you lose out a lot if you focus on combat before technology - it DOES pay out in the end if you can fit a series of very high-quality ships. The phase cruiser is really tough to use for me, but I have amazing success with the phase cruise/destroyer Asura from Blackrock. They can take on fleets of cruisers with ease if you don't mess up, and thats just the thing; the asura has a nice 'panic button' ability that removes flux rather than a phase skim ability.

Same thing applies, though. Rather than using the 'panic flux removal' you can just learn to use the phase skim of the phase cruiser to take on fleets way longer than the cruiser, jumping away to run and look for another opening when it gets too hot ((Or retreating if it just doesn't work out.)). Don't focus too much on ship damage, just fit a lot of PD and a small set of burst damage weaponry. Speed is key to make ANY use of tactics like this.

You could also use singular frigates/destroyers like the medusa or hyperion to weaken a fleet/kill what you can, then try to do a finishing move with your larger niche ships like the phase cruiser.
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Wyvern

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 11:59:55 AM »

I, personally, prefer to fly an Apogee - though I haven't yet managed to get one in the current version of the game.  Its big advantages are decent mobility (with full skills it can outrun some of the slower frigates), exceptionally strong shields, and superior range; as long as you can keep your drones alive, you can outrange almost anything.  And the only things that can threaten your drones while your shields are up (and they're holding station - never use roaming mode) are ships with EMP generators (and a few AoE weapons - bombers making a run across your shields can kill your drones as well.)

The Apogee's disadvantages are its relatively few weapon mounts, and the odd placement and inconvenient firing arcs.  Even against other cruisers, it's difficult (and frequently not worthwhile) to get more than one of your medium turrets on target at once; combined with the turrets being at the back of your ship, it's often best to approach an enemy sideways rather than head-on.
Due to these drawbacks, a solo Apogee is a bit vulnerable to fighters, especially broadswords; if you're up against a fighter heavy fleet, you often have to spend a significant amount of time maneuvering until you can either take out the carrier(s), or until the fighters simply run out of spare hulls.

At low skill levels, I find myself using heavy blasters and burst PD, all on autofire, and with plenty of use of the hold fire button to let soft flux go down when the heavy blasters drive flux levels too high.  The rest of your ordnance points should go into unstable injector, max vents, dedicated targeting core, and some capacitors.

Given the buffs to missiles, it may also be worthwhile to add a swarmer launcher to the above loadout, probably at the cost of some capacitors; anything you can do to better protect yourself from fighters is probably a good idea.

That stays pretty much constant while I gain levels in combat; the key skills are speed boost, dissipation / shield efficiency, and of course the damage boost one that ends in reduced ordnance point costs.  (Oh, and you want the level 5 perk for +75% maneuverability, but there's no need to push that skill any farther - if you play right, you won't take damage to armor or engines in the first place.)

Once you hit combat 10 and have some extra OP to play with, I tend to add one autopulse laser and call my armament done; after that it's time to bring up tech skills.  Key things to get are stabilized shields, more ordnance points, and the extra range boost from gunnery implants.  The autopulse is a perfect choice to pair with the heavy blasters; it's highly flux-efficient, and the way its ammo regen works means you can unload a burst and then turn to bring a heavy blaster to bear while the autopulse regenerates charges.  (General rule of thumb, though: don't bother firing the autopulse at armor on anything cruiser or larger; use it to raise your enemy's flux levels, but use the heavy blasters to break armor.)

There is one other Apogee build that I have a lot of fun with, but it basically requires being good at mouse steering (and having at least combat 10 and tech 5): Mount a plasma cannon.  Assuming you can hit frigates with even 50% reliability, that one plasma cannon will deal with anything that's not a fighter - so you can spend the entire rest of your armament on dedicated anti-fighter weapons; I typically use turreted phase beams and tactical lasers, backed by that AoE medium bomb launcher that I can never remember the name of (used to be phase charge launcher, but then the "phase" part got dropped); slap that in your large missile slot, and use it exclusively to deal with large swarms of fighters.
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hairrorist

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 12:24:57 PM »

Medusa
2x Reapers
2x Heavy Blasters
2x Burst PD Laser
Hardened Shields
Extended Shields
Stabilized Shields
40 vents
15 caps

Will pretty much eat anything and can take a ludicrous amount of punishment.

Plasma Apo(lo)gee is also excellent and both reward precision play.  There's just nothing that hits as hard anywhere near as efficiently as the big ball energy weapons.  They have great range, pack a wallop and a half with pinprick accuracy.

The Medusa shield/speed tank handles like a frigate but hits like a cruiser.  Plus it can teleport over or away from missiles and to chase down most anything.  Everything is manual though, so you have to fly like an ace, time your shots right, damn the torpedoes and GTFO button by button on the right trajectories.
It's hella fun.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 02:18:22 PM by hairrorist »
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StarSchulz

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 12:41:22 PM »

these are all very helpful,  :D  if only i could find any of those ships, dang tri tachyons will sell me a paragon but not an apogee  :'(

Xaiier

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2014, 12:45:58 PM »

...There is one other Apogee build that I have a lot of fun with, but it basically requires being good at mouse steering (and having at least combat 10 and tech 5): Mount a plasma cannon.  Assuming you can hit frigates with even 50% reliability, that one plasma cannon will deal with anything that's not a fighter - so you can spend the entire rest of your armament on dedicated anti-fighter weapons; I typically use turreted phase beams and tactical lasers, backed by that AoE medium bomb launcher that I can never remember the name of (used to be phase charge launcher, but then the "phase" part got dropped); slap that in your large missile slot, and use it exclusively to deal with large swarms of fighters.

I find the plasma cannon to be greatly superior to the autopulse due to its capacity to maintain DPS, unlike the autopulse which has a great alpha strike and then becomes lackluster. I run mine with two IR pulses and a plasma, and then fill the rest of the slots with burst PD, foregoing missiles and medium weapons on the rear slots to maximize the plasma's damage potential. With a targeting computer and the drones, it has preposterous range and can one shot kill or cripple most frigates, as well as easily overloading the shields of larger enemies at a safe range.
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Wyvern

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 12:57:39 PM »

One for one, yeah, the plasma cannon is better (if you have something with the flux stats to use it, which an Apogee with max vents does).  Where the Autopulse works out better is when it's used in combination with other weapons - bringing a target high on flux with the efficiency of an autopulse, and then using heavy blasters to force the target to choose between overload or losing large chunks of armor... that works pretty well.  But if you're trying to stay way back and only use the large energy weapon on your nose, absolutely go with the plasma cannon instead.

Oh, and a comment: heavy burst PD is actually a decent alternative to phase beams for anti-fighter weaponry.  I suspect your configuration would do better if you dropped the IR Pulse lasers and upgraded the two medium turret slots; I can't imagine that those IR pulse lasers see much use when they're right next to a plasma cannon...

Another option for anti-fighter is go with the heavy blasters on the mediums... and mount an HIL.  Yeah, the damage output is lackluster, but the extraordinary range means you can wipe out most fighters before they can get to you, and it's also useful for forcing enemy ships to keep their shields up while you back off and let your flux dissipate.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 01:00:47 PM by Wyvern »
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Aereto

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Re: How do you guys fly the High tech ships ? like the wolf
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 06:10:45 PM »

these are all very helpful,  :D  if only i could find any of those ships, dang tri tachyons will sell me a paragon but not an apogee  :'(
And to think that the Paragon is the one I was looking for. Would love to fit it with beams. I'm piloting the Afflictor, still, but the beams will wipe out destroyers and below while distracting cruisers and above long enough for a quad-Antimatter surprise. The AI might handle the Paragon well when given the right outfit.
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