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Author Topic: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.  (Read 17232 times)

Debido

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2014, 03:09:29 PM »

When I did a count the other day I observed there were something like 30% more object classes or interfaces in the API for new version. 30% is huge. Who knows how many more objects and classes he had to write in the core code.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:20:26 PM by Debido »
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Dri

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2014, 03:46:51 PM »

I don't get me wrong, I love the game, but simply saying 10 months or more is just how long it's gonna take is not going to sit well with current supporters as well as potential new ones. 10 months is enough time for many games to go from alpha to beta (I realize that many games aren't a game like Starsector) and yet 10 months for Starsector development is enough time only for one of the game's multitude of facets. Yikes.

It's unreasonable to ask Alex to code faster, I'm sure hes already going as fast as hes capable, so its basically another programmer is added or not. Which is probably not going to happen even though the bottleneck is undoubtedly coding speed, isn't it?
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Wyvern

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2014, 04:01:11 PM »

Actually, the bottleneck is almost never coding speed.  The bottleneck is figuring out what code you actually want in order to achieve subjective goals like "engaging gameplay" and "fun" and the like.  And that's something that a second programmer wouldn't really help with.

Also, while the time frame of updates clearly isn't sitting well with one supporter, there are plenty of others who really don't mind.  I paid my $10 for the game as it was at the time (way back when there was no campaign at all), and, had it never received any updates, I would still have gotten my money's worth.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Toxcity

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2014, 04:02:38 PM »

You also have to consider that Alex has to test all the changes he makes for bugs and if they feel cohesive with everything in the game.
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ciago92

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 04:06:14 PM »

You also have to consider that Alex has to test all the changes he makes for bugs and if they feel cohesive with everything in the game.

to that end, I'm curious what his thoughts are on a small team of testers that would get advance access and help look for bugs and such? I don't have the free time or coding skills to contribute to such a team, but I would imagine/hope/assume some of the mod makers on this forum would love to step up and help a bit. I mean it's basically pre-releasing to a smaller portion of us, but I figure every little bit helps, especially if its focused on high quality feedback rather than every lay person's feedback
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 04:08:01 PM »

I personally always prefer slow, significant, and well tested updates. More importantly, I prefer they give a lot more modding up-time. After an update, in most cases, most mods break, and require an update. Slower updates enhances the modding community, and allows a lot more mods. Most people who might try to make mods wont do so if they think that they will have several patches coming out, forcing them to redo parts of it, multiple times before they get something worthwhile.

That just happens to be the way I feel about it. What do you think?
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Cycerin

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2014, 04:41:00 PM »

Waiting sucks, but compromise sucks more.

E: Still need more sound/graphic assets huh? interesting...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 04:52:00 PM by Cycerin »
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Psigun

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2014, 04:52:51 PM »

It takes whatever it takes. Looking forward to the next update regardless of how far forward it is.
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TheDTYP

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2014, 06:23:37 PM »

I'm so conflicted! On one end, I'm thinking to myself "*sigh* Year 3, (exaggerating) no sign of StarSector .65" but on the other I understand that the wonderful people behind the game are working to their utmost ability and speed. I guess it would be nice to have indicators of when it was coming out (I was, unwisely, under the impression it would be released shortly after the "Markets" Blog Post back when that came out) or more frequent blog posts to keep my appetite going. I STRONGLY prefer vanilla StarSector over mods so it is indeed frustrating to wait for a very long time for a new update, especially when nobody has a clue for how long we'll be waiting for, but I do realize that Alex and the rest of the guys aren't slacking or anything, not to mention I don't wanna be THAT GUY who is whining about the game taking long and giving the developers unneeded headache over it. Take your time, my friends! I just hope, for the sake of my not being BORED OUT OF MY MIND, it's not an ABSURD amount of time! Keep doing what you're doing. Good luck and thank you!

Also, I like how the creators actually respond on the forums. I don't know if that's a thing that indie game developers frequently do (I primarily play console games, so me even hearing of StarSector is an achievement for you guys!) but nonetheless, I find it very helpful and a great way to get information about the game. Not to mention you seem like good people in general. Thanks, seeya
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boogada

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2014, 07:04:18 PM »

I'm really looking forward to this update as well, it sounds like this is adding the features that can really make the campaign side of the game come alive.
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BillyRueben

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2014, 07:13:35 PM »

and what, we're just all gonna be cool with waiting another 10 months for the next, and the next, and the next?

Yup. There are other games to play.
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Sundog

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2014, 07:23:54 PM »

Ubisoft releases a new Assassin's Creed game roughly once per year. Here's how:
  • The obvious reason is the amount of manpower at their disposal. It's easy to assume this is the main contributor to development speed, but when it comes to the programming aspect of development it doesn't help at all unless you can divide tasks effectively. It's really easy to step on other people's toes while sharing code. I know this from experience and it's conventional wisdom in the field. One mind is better than two when it comes to writing heavily interwoven code. The best way for programmers to work with each other effectively is to divide tasks such that they work with each other as little as possible. Unfortunately, it's not always easy to divide tasks that way. Imagine you're George R.R. Martin and half the internet is giving you a hard time about how long it's taking you to finish A Song of Ice and Fire. Would you consider hiring an assistant or two to help you write more quickly? Perhaps you could write the odd chapters and let your new assistant handle the even ones. Absurd, right? Programming is rarely that bad, but the underlying issues are the same.
  • Concurrent development. Ubisoft doesn't work on one AC game at a time, they work on up to three at a time, each with it's own dedicated development team. From start to finish, it takes them two to three years to make a new AC game, not one.
  • The main reason Ubisoft can pull this off, however, is that all the AC games have so many similarities. They're not creating entirely new games, they're adding features to the same game. The content (art, story, voice acting, etc.) may change in significant ways, but that rarely requires new code. Don't get me wrong, new features are added, but I'm willing to bet at least 90% of the code in each AC game is also in the one before it. New and unique features take an abundance of time to create, but anything that's already been done is orders of magnitude easier because the concepts have already been ironed out and the necessary tools have already been created. This isn't only true for sequels, either, it applies to entire genres. Want to make an RPG? Use RPG Maker. Want to make an FPS? Use Unity. Want to make Starsector? You're starting from scratch.

So, like I said; Ubisoft releases a new Assassin's Creed game roughly once per year. But try looking at it this way; It takes Ubisoft over 2 years to create a new set of features for Assassin's Creed. By that standard I don't think Starsector's development rate is ridiculously slow. Not by a long shot.

sirboomalot

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2014, 07:36:32 PM »

10 months not gonna sit well with supporters? As a supporter of this game, I think you might need to speak for yourself; 10 months is even less than the time between some Dwarf Fortress releases, where that game's development is entirely supported by free donations. I think that for a quality game such as this, 10 months is perfectly fine, and more shows that the developer is willing to take the time to make the game right.

Just got to stay patient and let the game come when it is ready.
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Schwartz

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2014, 08:03:52 PM »

Did you read what it says on the "Buy" page? Because that pretty much sums it up. The purchase of the alpha does not include that you're entitled to any sort of schedule. You're just entitled to updates if and when they come. This makes all indignation at what he does and doesn't do in the meantime completely silly.

I think Alex has chosen not to put himself into any sort of further bind just for that reason. Nothing kills your spirits quicker than feeling pressure put on a thing you're supposed to enjoy doing. It's in all our best interests that he loves his work. And unlike some (bigger) companies who talk big but never deliver, he works on his game regularly.

Yeah, I'm being a white knight here. But my experience so far has been nothing but positive. He's very responsive if you need game support, and blog updates happen regularly and in-detail. I would even go so far as to cite Starsector as a model citizen of the indie world. Just shows how completely different people's perception can be I suppose.
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736b

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Re: I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous.
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2014, 08:20:48 PM »

I don't get me wrong, I love the game, but simply saying 10 months or more is just how long it's gonna take is not going to sit well with current supporters as well as potential new ones.
I'm fine with the development speed and it's not like Starsector is the only game I'm playing.
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