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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Sector Battles: Tournament  (Read 67874 times)

Chaos Farseer

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #240 on: October 14, 2014, 10:52:12 AM »


Well, thanks for hosting the tournament regardless, Dark Revenant. Kinda silly it turned out this way. T'was fun, though, and creating a tournament which used logistics was really neat.

And Tariflette, you out-missile'd the Exigency? Jeez. You deserve a medal.
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kazi

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #241 on: October 14, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »

Hah, I won a match! Was kinda expecting to just get absolutely zerged, but I might have been confusing some of Foxer's ships with Tartiflette's when I watched that fight. Not surprised that I had trouble catching the frigates as they were so freaking fast and Mayorate ships are slowwwww...

I might run my next battle later tonight or something (which would have been against MesoTroniK). Would be my first chance to actually face a balanced fleet!

However this tournament makes me wish Starsector had some sort of "skirmish" feature, similar to how you play Gratuitous Space Battles. You could specify a set credits/logistics/command point cap, pick a faction, and then get to drag and drop whichever ships/variants you want into the battle and specify initial orders. You could then export your fleets/orders as a .csv file or something for other people to play with/against. Sounds awesome, right?
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Jazwana

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #242 on: October 14, 2014, 12:19:05 PM »

This tournament went the way of the Honorverse  :P
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Tartiflette

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #243 on: October 14, 2014, 12:56:14 PM »

I should have used MIRV then, to emulate the missile pods! ^^

In other news if there ever is another tournament the rules must be very different. I'm thinking something like:
- no missiles in universals mounts
- the ships can be fitted only with their faction weapons or vanilla
- same limited set of ships available for all (maybe frigates the first turn, then the destroyers are added the second...).
- bonus for faction matching fleets, maybe like including one restricted ship to the available ones (for example you can have one Imaginos in a BRDY fleet)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 01:15:41 PM by Tartiflette »
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kazi

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #244 on: October 14, 2014, 01:15:11 PM »

This tournament went the way of the Honorverse  :P

Brb, rolling pods... ;)
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Thaago

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #245 on: October 14, 2014, 02:46:52 PM »

I wonder if its possible to design ships with enough PD to counter the missile spam... now that we know that small ship missile spam is the "meta" superior strategy it might be interesting to design a fleet specifically to beat it.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #246 on: October 14, 2014, 02:54:07 PM »

I wonder if its possible to design ships with enough PD to counter the missile spam...

enforcers with flak, good guns and full flux vents and capacity, versus their credit worth of mercuries, all vanilla weapons...
(made to prove a point to some guys on http://forums.somethingawful.com but he don't seems to understand missile spam isn't a simple mod issue)
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Farlarzia

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #247 on: October 14, 2014, 02:56:33 PM »

That was the idea with my templar ships, fully maxed with rhon beams. Sadly I didn't get partnered against people to test it against, and I had normal fights, upon which I was promptly annihilated
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Tartiflette

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #248 on: October 14, 2014, 03:31:25 PM »

That was the idea with my templar ships, fully maxed with rhon beams. Sadly I didn't get partnered against people to test it against, and I had normal fights, upon which I was promptly annihilated
Good point, I'll let you judge the result8)

One remark once you watched the video
Spoiler
I'll concede that it's my beam frigates that killed your cruisers, but most of my missiles Mercuries died because the AI makes missile boats stupidly hug enemy ships and they got caught in the Templar core explosion...
[close]
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TJJ

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #249 on: October 14, 2014, 05:10:44 PM »

I wonder if its possible to design ships with enough PD to counter the missile spam...

enforcers with flak, good guns and full flux vents and capacity, versus their credit worth of mercuries, all vanilla weapons...
(made to prove a point to some guys on http://forums.somethingawful.com but he don't seems to understand missile spam isn't a simple mod issue)

Is it just a problem with the Mercury class though?
15 missile alpha-strike platform for 2400 RU; 800 RU per mount.
I can't see a way of getting anywhere near that efficiency with any other class.
The two closest I can see (in vanilla) are the Afflictor & Enforcer; 3000 RU & 2850 RU per missile-capable mount respectively.

I think missile spam is only a problem when you try to rely upon the vanilla hull RU cost as the lone balancing factor; they were clearly never intended to be used in that way.

Rebalance the RU costs (using vanilla costs as a starting point) and I think this missile spam strategy would disappear.
(and in this rebalance the Mercury should be made prohibitively expensive! it's a shuttle fgs, not a missile boat!)

On a side-note.... when did the Mercury get the rear facing universal mount???
The last time I played the vanilla Campaign it had only 2 forward facing! :o
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #250 on: October 14, 2014, 05:33:55 PM »

On a side-note.... when did the Mercury get the rear facing universal mount???
The last time I played the vanilla Campaign it had only 2 forward facing! :o

They changed it after the last patch - the previous Shuttle was morphed and split into the Mercury and the Hermes.  Both now have a rear-facing universal mount - I think the one before had just two small universal mounts, the "shuttle_modern.png" in the graphics file (it's been so long that I can't remember which one was in the game).
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Farlarzia

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #251 on: October 15, 2014, 10:08:15 AM »

Actually impressed with how well my ships handled that :O
I put up a good fight. Seeing my paladin use it maxed burst in the middle of all those ships and missles >:D
Lovely. Thanks for that
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Thaago

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #252 on: October 15, 2014, 07:09:40 PM »

I'd like to run a few tests of my own, but I can't get the game to run with the AI battles mod - something in my mods must be old as I keep running into missing variants and weapons.

Tartiflette - whats the name of your ship's variant? I'm just going to copy it into my standard sandbox mission.

[Edit] Durrr, nevermind on that... literally 2 seconds after I post I found it. I'm guessing its the shuttle_tartiflette_rocketBoat.
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Thaago

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #253 on: October 15, 2014, 07:28:52 PM »

Actually, I can't run the test at all - even when I set the enemy captains to "suicidal", the shuttles retreat the instant they make contact with my ships.

How can you force them to fight? I actually think I can make a Paragon variant with a little tweaking that will laugh at missile spam, but for the life of me I can't do any testing!
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Thaago

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Re: Sector Battles: Tournament
« Reply #254 on: October 15, 2014, 08:38:30 PM »

Well, I've done the best testing that I can do in the simulator (copy + pasted 30 enemy missile spam frigates in, tested lone ships against increasing numbers).

Other than revealing an incredibly high number of shield AI flaws (I need to reproduce some of them in vanilla, because there were times when Tempests would deploy shields on the opposite side of a missile) that I had to specifically design around (all ships get accelerated shields, Paragons get Front Shields and accelerated shields - freaking bizarre), I can say this:

At the costs for ships in this tournament, missile spam is not a problem. It is simply a strategy that needs to be dealt with by appropriate ships.

My tweaked Paragon can easily survive 20 missile frigates - more than its cost - though 25 was a bit of a problem. It even has decent, if less, anti ship guns on it so its not helpess. The main tweaks came in the hullmods to make the shield AI not idiotic. Unfortunately, the Paragons can't catch any of the shuttles (even with HIL's, extended optics, and a targeting unit), so its a stalemate.

My Tempest did remarkably well on its own, but with just a little tweaking it could take 4 missile boats with only minor damage, though it took a long time. Most of this long time was due to the AI just being too cowardly - I can wipe out the 4 missiles boats piloting myself without any problems. I did get a bit of testing in 30 on 10 (slightly under representing Tempests cost wise) and in the minute or so before the enemy entered full retreat I had 2 kills and no losses. Even the few Tempests with 35+ blue/green missiles chasing them [side note: those things are ridiculously overpowered for how many shots they have, though maybe they will be in line with the new, deadly missiles coming up] just kept running away and soaking missile targeting, leaving other Tempests free to get kills.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 08:41:59 PM by Thaago »
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