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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: Faction Relationships  (Read 40642 times)

Gothars

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2014, 10:56:26 AM »

I'm not really bothered by the abundance of circles, but it's bothering me a bit that the way the symbols are displayed seems to lack a formal standard (as of now). Makes them seem a bit thrown together, as a group.

- The Ludds, Tri-Tachyons, Independents and Pirates have a symbol with roughly the same edge length centered in a broad box. |  O  |

- The Hegemoney has a symbol that also has equal edge lengths, but is offset by an arrow on the left.  |}  O |
I think that's a better use of space, it looks more elegant to my eyes. I would suggest to use that for all factions, but:


- The Sindrian Diktat has a symbol with a longer horizontal axis centered in the same broad box. |--O--|





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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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David

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2014, 11:13:03 AM »

I'm not really bothered by the abundance of circles, but it's bothering me a bit that the way the symbols are displayed seems to lack a formal standard (as of now). Makes them seem a bit thrown together, as a group.

This thought has come to mind, actually!

I see two approaches: make it a bit gamey/artificial and have them be totally consistent (which can be done well- I do quite like for example the Alpha Centauri faction 'crests'), or go with the thought that these factions are not using a shared graphics standards protocol /at all/ to reflect how different they are. But that might feel like an excuse to be inconsistent. Granted, almost all world flags (which can be our point of reference) follow a shared standard with some notable exceptions, but states of the world are a somewhat more stable and uniform group that factions in the Sector -- imagine if you included among the flags of the world the logos of powerful corporations and the flags or symbols of rebels and pirates.

My final answer is that nothing is set in stone.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 02:29:24 PM by David »
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Debido

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2014, 01:33:16 PM »

@David

Actually it would be interesting to see what the old domain crest looks like, a bit of Lore. I can imagine there might be a few die hard 'the domain still exists' types hanging around.
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Gothars

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2014, 03:47:55 PM »

or go with the thought that these factions are not using a shared graphics standards protocol /at all/ to reflect how different they are.

I would hold against that approach that what are you seeing in the UI is supposedly not the raw data that the different factions are releasing. The menu, in my understanding, represents data that is preprocessed and streamlined for your chararacter. So it would make a lot of sense for wildly different symbols to have identical formatting, since that is choosen on the player (-sides) end.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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David

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2014, 05:56:37 PM »

or go with the thought that these factions are not using a shared graphics standards protocol /at all/ to reflect how different they are.

I would hold against that approach that what are you seeing in the UI is supposedly not the raw data that the different factions are releasing. The menu, in my understanding, represents data that is preprocessed and streamlined for your chararacter. So it would make a lot of sense for wildly different symbols to have identical formatting, since that is choosen on the player (-sides) end.

That's a good angle; I'm sure the TriPad uses a standard symbol set (contact your local TriTachyon franchise officer for licensing opportunities).

@David

Actually it would be interesting to see what the old domain crest looks like, a bit of Lore. I can imagine there might be a few die hard 'the domain still exists' types hanging around.

Hah, good point! Yeah, I should come up with something. (I actually do have a vague idea for it based on how a bunch of other stuff is turning out.)
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haloguy1

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2014, 05:57:11 PM »

Just wondering when will this update be?  ???
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PCCL

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2014, 06:13:20 PM »

is the pirate x an actual symbol?

I was hoping for those nice skull/mask things in the blog post from before... :(
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Megas

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2014, 06:26:39 PM »

I like the X, although that could be mistaken for an error symbol.  It is unexpected, simple, and seems original.  That said, a good skull-and-crossbones is still a classic.  (Or maybe hockey mask-and-crossbones... or hockey mask and double chainsaws.)
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Alex

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2014, 10:56:27 PM »

or go with the thought that these factions are not using a shared graphics standards protocol /at all/ to reflect how different they are.

I would hold against that approach that what are you seeing in the UI is supposedly not the raw data that the different factions are releasing. The menu, in my understanding, represents data that is preprocessed and streamlined for your chararacter. So it would make a lot of sense for wildly different symbols to have identical formatting, since that is choosen on the player (-sides) end.

That's a good angle; I'm sure the TriPad uses a standard symbol set (contact your local TriTachyon franchise officer for licensing opportunities).

Hmm. I can't imagine they'd use too different a set of symbols than the factions themselves use, though. It'd be like, "we helpfully normalized the flags for you so that they look nothing like the originals!" :) Also, it seems to me like stuff is easier to recognize at a glance when it has more unique shapes, especially when the flags are displayed in smaller sizes on buttons and such. I don't know how much of a concern that is, though, since the colors are distinct. Then again, that wouldn't help if someone is color-blind.
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Alex

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2014, 11:03:05 PM »

Just wondering when will this update be?  ???

I realize that this is an eminently unhelpful answer, but - "when it's ready". Things are moving along very well, though; just a lot to wrap up.
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Linnis

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2014, 11:21:36 AM »

I like the X, although that could be mistaken for an error symbol.  It is unexpected, simple, and seems original.  That said, a good skull-and-crossbones is still a classic.  (Or maybe hockey mask-and-crossbones... or hockey mask and double chainsaws.)

well, looking at how you do actually HAVE a relationship with pirate, so probably means the symbol is that of the biggest pirate group, or something. (think starwars the hutts)

Maybe we will get more information about this as lore in the future?
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MShadowy

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2014, 12:08:58 PM »

or go with the thought that these factions are not using a shared graphics standards protocol /at all/ to reflect how different they are.

I would hold against that approach that what are you seeing in the UI is supposedly not the raw data that the different factions are releasing. The menu, in my understanding, represents data that is preprocessed and streamlined for your chararacter. So it would make a lot of sense for wildly different symbols to have identical formatting, since that is choosen on the player (-sides) end.

That's a good angle; I'm sure the TriPad uses a standard symbol set (contact your local TriTachyon franchise officer for licensing opportunities).

Hmm. I can't imagine they'd use too different a set of symbols than the factions themselves use, though. It'd be like, "we helpfully normalized the flags for you so that they look nothing like the originals!" :) Also, it seems to me like stuff is easier to recognize at a glance when it has more unique shapes, especially when the flags are displayed in smaller sizes on buttons and such. I don't know how much of a concern that is, though, since the colors are distinct. Then again, that wouldn't help if someone is color-blind.

Yeah, I have to agree; it really makes very little sense for faction iconography to all be normalized without much regard to what the actual symbols look like.  Moreover, given what we're talking about, I wouldn't expect standardization between different factions either.

Beyond that, having the faction flags all look reasonably different from each will make it much more readily apparent which faction is which while navigating the UI.
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Gothars

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2014, 04:27:33 PM »

Well, I think there's a big difference in how a faction icon looks, and how it is presented in the space that is reserved for it. I'm all for very different and distinct faction icons, with all kinds of shapes and colors.

Thing is, it's not quite clear if we are seeing rectangular flags here, or symbols with a background. In the former case, it's all well, the factions make their flags as they like and the UI just shows them. (Then most of them would surprisingly similar, though.) But in the latter case, if these are symbols on some filler background (and that's how I understood it), the UI has to arrange them on that background anyway. So why would it not do that in a unified way?
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Bobakanoosh

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2014, 12:44:29 PM »

Haven't logged on in a while. Just read the update. Alex, you and your team are doing a wonderful job!

On the point of the Luddites, I think it makes sense to have these separate factions in the same 'alliance'. Think about the Christians: the are Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodist, etc. They all worship the same god/saint/deity/flying spaghetti monster, but are in different denominations. I can see the same thing applied to the Luddites.
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Alex

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Re: Faction Relationships
« Reply #74 on: August 25, 2014, 07:06:44 PM »

Thing is, it's not quite clear if we are seeing rectangular flags here, or symbols with a background. In the former case, it's all well, the factions make their flags as they like and the UI just shows them.

I've been thinking of it as the former, yeah.

Haven't logged on in a while. Just read the update. Alex, you and your team are doing a wonderful job!

Thanks for the support :)
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