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[Dark.Revenant]

There is a smaller carrier planned.  The paladin has always been a heavy cruiser, not a flagship.  It's powerful enough to act as a flagship if there are no battleships in the fleet, but ultimately it does not have the oomph to hold down an entire endgame fleet.

[Weltall]

O.O What? A smaller carrier? I cringe at the thought.. Templar having a lower CR solution when it comes to keeping their fighters alive and going.. The only reason eventually I stopped being really scared of the Templar, is because I came to understand that they can't have too many ships on their side, thanks to their huge CR.. but having a cheaper (in CR) carrier.. Now that adds a new level of fear.

[Schwartz]

Agreed. I have an end-game fleet myself with a lot of Teuton wings, and they tend to be so damn survivable that a carrier isn't really required to keep a battle going. They could be useful in Templar vs. Templar fights. Those burst attacks are the only thing that can really make short work of Teutons. But generally I think with the focus on a lean and mean ship lineup another carrier isn't really a fitting addition - nor another capital. To round it off, if anything I would consider adding another destroyer that's a little less lumbering and defensive. Maybe something with utility like a slow wind-up phase warp.

But as always, you do your thing.

[Dark.Revenant]

By smaller carrier I was thinking more like a cruiser.  A combat destroyer is also planned, as is another fighter type.

[Sy]

if a smaller carrier is added, how about making it a hybrid? it would be nice if Templars had a way of replenishing fighter wings without requiring a capital ship, but i also agree with Weltall in that Teuton wings being continuously rebuilt by a carrier hiding somewhere at the edge of the map seems kinda crazy. i suppose the current carrier is already a hybrid as well, but it doesn't act like one. a cruiser or possibly even destroyer sized hybrid carrier that fights at the front lines could be more easily focused down. having Teuton wings built and launched directly at the front lines, and having a hybrid ship dive right into battle, also fits the aggressive, almost suicidal Templar style, imo.

[Weltall]

I can't imagine any Templar ship hiding in the edge of the map honestly. The only one hiding is me. They have been nerfed so much, I finally managed to be able to stand against them.. and still I fear them.

I do not know how you got those Wings Schwartz. I used to be able to befriend them to in their market, but by now I am unable too. I am guessing if i turn against other factions right away, they might like me. I would mention about being sad they are not as powerful as they used to be, but I feel I will be shot on the spot for it.

I started a game of 0.6.5.2a... and got reminded why I really preferred to avoid them and let others handle them.

[King Alfonzo]

Was there ever talks of a non-carrier capital ship for the Knights? I have been really enjoying playing a game as a knight captain(using star starsector +, Nex, and most of the mod factions), and I have slowly phased knight ships out of my fleet. The Carrier is to resource heavy to really deploy, and really it isn't like it matters how much armor you have on your carriers.

I too have found the Carrier to be a bit of an underwhelming adversary when I'm fighting against the Templars. They lack that umph the other ships have (the lack of a large mount I think really hurts it). What's more, it really only gets engaged right at the end of the battle when you've mopped up the rest of the fleet and you can pick it apart with leisure. It's a good carrier, but a rather dodgy capital, and - dare I say it - a rather dodgy cruiser. I wouldn't mind having a version of the Carrier with no flight decks, but about three large mounts, turning it into what the Cathedral is on steroids. That way when it pops up on your screen you know that you're going to be in for a bad time, instead of something you'll have to deal with once you've eaten the fifth paladin.

I do not know how you got those Wings Schwartz.

Strange thing I noticed ages ago - sometimes (but very rarely) templar weapons and fighter wings just appear in completely random markets. I've picked up Rhon lasers, Pax cannons, Merced cannons, Clarents and one or two Teuton fighter wings from random markets. Pretty generally these pop up in Tritachyon and CABAL markets, but my last Teuton Wing I found in a pirate market (!). I've even found an Arondight in Jangala and 2 flux cannons (whatever they're called) in an Imperium market (Aleria - I beg of you, in freaking ALERIA). So if you're just passing through a system, give a quick glance around the markets, because you never know when you might see that elusive Templar Teuton unicorn.

[Schwartz]

Yeah, you'll find the odd Teuton wing in random high-tech markets. I've had good luck with Blackrock.

[borgrel]

I too have found the Carrier to be a bit of an underwhelming adversary when I'm fighting against the Templars. They lack that umph the other ships have (the lack of a large mount I think really hurts it). What's more, it really only gets engaged right at the end of the battle when you've mopped up the rest of the fleet and you can pick it apart with leisure. It's a good carrier, but a rather dodgy capital, and - dare I say it - a rather dodgy cruiser. I wouldn't mind having a version of the Carrier with no flight decks, but about three large mounts, turning it into what the Cathedral is on steroids. That way when it pops up on your screen you know that you're going to be in for a bad time, instead of something you'll have to deal with once you've eaten the fifth paladin.

it can mount 5 medium missile batteries ....... and a flight of 10 clarents can kick just about anybodies teeth in.
which is more perfect for its support role that direct fire weapons

...... and dont say 1 large missile and 3 mediums will work exactly the same, because the shots/min are differant so u will just end up with staggered missiles instead of huge salvos.

[Sy]

i think King Alfonzo is right though, the main problem is simply that you generally don't engage any Archbishop(s) until you've already dealt with the rest of their fleet. at that point you can usually just overwhelm them and take them out relatively quickly and easily.
if they'd attack with the bulk of their forces, and barrage you with Clarents while you're busy fighting several Paladins and various smaller craft, Archbishops would probably be a lot scarier.

also keep in mind that the large version of Clarents fires four of them at a time. and with its greatly extended range, it could also be dangerous when used from behind the front lines, while small and medium mount Clarent launchers only work in a direct engagement.

[Starasp]

I wouldn't mind having a version of the Carrier with no flight decks, but about three large mounts, turning it into what the Cathedral is on steroids. That way when it pops up on your screen you know that you're going to be in for a bad time, instead of something you'll have to deal with once you've eaten the fifth paladin.

That already exists if you're doing IBB stuff. The mod-archbishop can do exactly this iirc.

[Sy]

That already exists if you're doing IBB stuff. The mod-archbishop can do exactly this iirc.

yep, that thing is pretty nuts. but it doesn't change how 99% of fights against Templars play out.

[Schwartz]

You're saying the Templar capital is easy? Sheesh.. we must be playing a different game. Maybe if there was nothing else going on on the battlefield. But I seldom have the luxury of fighting it as an 'afterthought'. Usually it's surrounded by Teutons and some other stuff.

[King Alfonzo]

You're saying the Templar capital is easy? Sheesh.. we must be playing a different game. Maybe if there was nothing else going on on the battlefield. But I seldom have the luxury of fighting it as an 'afterthought'. Usually it's surrounded by Teutons and some other stuff.

But you DO normally fight it when there's nothing else on the board. You just sit back and munch on the Teutons until they're spent, then mob it. Trying to attack that thing while the rest of the fleet is there is literal suicide. The carrier is a good anchor for a fleet, but it needs the fleet there to be spooky...which I can kind of think was a balancing decision so it's not too OP.

Then again, in my anti-Templar fleet I usually have hardened subsystems on all my ships as standard, so I can kind of outlast them.

[Sy]

You're saying the Templar capital is easy?

not really "easy", it's still a powerful ship. but easier than fighting two or three Paladins + several Crusaders, Jesuits and/or Martyrs + at least as many Teutons as you're still dealing with when finally engaging the Archbishop(s).