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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 626948 times)

Unbroken

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #675 on: January 07, 2016, 11:56:56 AM »

Yes, ROLANDs do thin out fleets at first contact.  After that, if the remaining fleet is large enough, it is a slog without the big guns.  The other Templar heavy guns are great in some way.  Juger is the slow Doom 3-style BFG shot - pseudo PD and high-damage all-in-one.  Joyese is like a long-range super-charged TPC.  Arondight is practically unblockable stun (at least in the 0.65 days).  ROLAND simply means the first few enemy ships disappear, then you finish off the rest the enemy without additional support.  Regeneration is slow enough that its DPS is a shadow of other heavy Templar weapons.  It makes ROLAND usable after the initial fireworks are over.

I dunno - I've used the Arondight a fair bit on a Paladin I captured while I was ROLAND farming. While it gores ships that are venting or have dropped shields, I found it much less effective vs. shields, and it's unwieldly to use against targets that will take crippling damage from it (such as destroyers). It's certainly effective at blowing a big hole in capital ship armor, but aside from that + the EMP, I thought it was a bit underwhelming for the 7k flux/shot and 41 OP. I felt like it was best for giving frontline cruisers such as Eagles hell.

Part of why I found the ROLAND so game-breaking was combining it with the Fast Missile Racks system + expanded racks hullmod, along with using the best officer skills, where you can deploy a missile cruiser the AI has no hope of ever countering for peanuts, and it'll chomp ten or possibly twenty times its deploy cost in ships before being tied to the autoloader and the player does not have to fly it to gain the benefit.

As far as the AI Paladins go, I respect and am much more wary of ROLANDs than any other weapon with the possible exception of the Joyeuse at close range, however it's nowhere near as ridiculous as it can be on the right ship. It may simply be because the ROLAND is dead-easy for the AI to use well, while the AI has a harder time using the other heavy weapons as effectively in their intended context.

I'd suggest reducing the ROLAND's range,

To what?  As far as your concerns go, even the bog standard Clarent's relatively short range is enough to kill everybody, since it's longer than any ballistic/energy weapon.

I was thinking to around 3000 or 3500su. The other Clarent racks are in a good spot, since you can generally deal with the ship firing them in some manner, shoot them down or tank them on your shield at the cost of hard flux. Shieldtanking a ROLAND continuously is doable in a good ship, but you'll be in big trouble if anything else takes an interest in you as overloading is a death sentence in that situation.

Either way, the changes are made, all we can do is wait and see for ourselves once 0.9.5e is out.
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Megas

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #676 on: January 07, 2016, 01:24:32 PM »

The main use of the Arondight (when I played in 0.65) is/was to force an overload.  On a Paladin, Sentennia and Rhons were plenty enough firepower already.  Arondight was there to overload and freeze targets.  If it hits shields, flux goes up by half or more, depending on target.  If shields are down, it takes a lot of damage AND overloads too.

I usually use Arondight on Onslaught or Conquest.  Two Arondights focused on one target will overload just about anything, and it is evil.

None of the standard ships that have large missile mounts also has Fast Missile Racks.  The closest we have is Gryphon's nanoforge, and that can only be used once per fight.

If the enemy fleet is small, or if used against your solo flagship, then sure, ROLAND is devastating.  My hardest fights are those with 100+ ships (some of which are battleships), and I try to build for them.  ROLAND is great at alpha-striking, but it is less useful when I need high and steady DPS throughout a long marathon fight.

With that said, regeneration does make ROLAND competitive with other heavy Templar weapons.  If you use ROLAND instead of other Templar weapons for your heavy universal mount, you take it because you want to alpha-strike a few ships immediately and deal that damage spike now.
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KopiG

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #677 on: January 08, 2016, 12:08:48 AM »

Thank you for making comissions in the upcoming 'e' version a must have to buy stuff. I really think this was the right call. If you want to buy from the Templars instead of salvaging you have to accept the fact that the whole sector will be hostile to you. I really like this change. I will even restart my game now to see how things will go with these changes yay!
PS: I hope ROLANDs and Clarents arent nerfed to oblivion :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 03:16:31 AM by KopiG »
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StarSchulz

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #678 on: January 08, 2016, 12:29:53 AM »

Honestly i thought that the Roland system was pretty meh, unless i was setting up a ship dedicated for clarent spam. When i tried bringing it with other weapons the slow reload time just felt like i was gimping the Paladin's firepower and i prefer the Arondight Accelerator or the Crazy laser space shotgun [ don't remember the name of that ].

Something i will stand by: If the Templar's didn't have something like their Clarents, they would be far too easy to cheese.

Ced23Ric

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #679 on: January 08, 2016, 02:48:01 AM »

I gotta say, when I loaded up my newest game last night (erry faction, plus nex, plus SS+, max systems/planets/stations, wheeee it's busy in here) and rolled with Hiigarans, I *** my pants when I realised that the planet next to mine - like, throw a rock and you're there - is occupired by the Templars. So, initially, everytime I would go home or do something around my homebase, I had to rely on the Hiigaran's superior burn speeds to avoid the ever-salty Templars.

Then they started attacking my mining and convoy fleets, so I started hopping in to assist.

It's funny. The resilience and speed of the Hiigarans combined with their relative short-range kinetic and HE heavy projectile weapons deals with the Templars rather well. At first I felt like I was the fodder placed next to the predator, but now I am starting to appreciate the constant source of XP, gear and credits. Clarents hurt, and I usually need to eat that alpha and vent, but as soon as the Clarents are out of the way, ganging up on them one by one works dandy. Since their captains lean towards aggressive, they like to come to get their beating, too, which makes it easier to deal with them.

That being said, they are probably among the most intimidating factions, which I find great. They are very flavourful and enjoyable to fight with, and even more so, against. Good job, Cycerin.

Spoiler
Now expand their fleet. ;)
[close]

[ don't remember the name of that ].
Ah, mon ami, c'est la Joyeuse Fractal Laser!
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JohnDoe

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #680 on: January 08, 2016, 07:47:21 PM »

I'm just waiting for a frigate with a large missile slot so I can put ROLANDs on those.
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Takion Kasukedo

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #681 on: January 09, 2016, 06:26:58 AM »

I'm just waiting for a frigate with a large missile slot so I can put ROLANDs on those.
Oh-hohohoh...

You evil bastard, you.
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Is now able to cook a decent Creamy Salmon Pasta, amok other things.

Still loves purple. Still not skilled enough to make a mod that doesn't get that one damn error.

Starasp

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #682 on: January 12, 2016, 11:48:35 AM »

Just put 3 ROLANDS on a Citadel Monolith with expanded racks and all those nice missile skills/ship mods, and park it a ways back from the action.

Get some quick fighters to spot for you.

Commence laughing.
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Blaze

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #683 on: January 12, 2016, 12:39:48 PM »

I'm just waiting for a frigate with a large missile slot so I can put ROLANDs on those.
Flu-X has the Necro Scab, which is just that.
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Megas

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #684 on: January 12, 2016, 01:25:46 PM »

Some feedback on Knights Templar for 0.7.1.

The new block-head portraits appear a bit silly, but admittedly matches the faction and ships' style.  The portraits where the mouth is visible remind me of Megatron from the Transformers, 80s generation one cartoon series.  (For my test game, I picked the knight with no mouth and V for eyes, and named him Morgoth.)

With Safety Override, I have a reason to use Merced Cannon, at least on a Martyr.  With Safety Override on a Martyr, I can fire dual Merced Cannons non-stop, and the 500 range is no longer a deal-breaker after Safety Override cuts the range to less.

The recent change to beam AI made Rhons (with IPDAI) better at PD.

Did Single Clarent always cost 3 OP, or did it cost more in previous builds?  At 2 OP (with Optimized Assembly perk), it is a nice alternative to the Reaper for some ships.  I still would not use dual Clarent due to high OP cost, especially if my captain has Missile Specialization 5+.

Medium Clarent tubes that regenerate are nice.  Tried them on an Odyssey, and while they are no ROLAND, the tubes are deadly and effective.  After all, they launch Clarents - enough said.

Joyese is still powerful despite reduced damage.  It is nice to no longer deal with ammo.

Had no chance to try Arondight lately yet.  Other weapons seem more or less the same as before.  Sentenia is still my go-to for medium energy weaponry.

Smiters reduced to two per wing is actually a bit of a boost, at least for a chain-battling player.  While three Smiters per wing increased alpha striking and gratuitous overkill, deploying two per wing means less CR gets used per fight, and I can deploy the same Smiter wings in more consecutive fights.  Other Teuton wings break down more quickly and I cannot deploy them as often as Smiters.

Crusader ship system is mostly worthless now.  It is only good if the ship needs to stall for time.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #685 on: January 12, 2016, 02:38:44 PM »

The crusader is nigh invulnerable with the system on.  It's meant to be used by the AI; it's not so interesting for the player.
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ahrenjb

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #686 on: January 15, 2016, 09:33:06 AM »

I'm running the latest version, and crusades appear to be "working", but they're kind of... Small. The most recent crusade in Sindria ended with a death toll of something like 800 templars to 3000 others. Not exactly massive fleet combat, in fact I'm not even seeing large templar fleets, even when flying around the area looking for the large fleets.

Imperium sieges on the other hand, appear to be working as intended.

UPDATE: Had another crusade, took a screenshot this time. Never saw a templar fleet with more than a single capital with some frigates and wings or a couple cruisers with the same.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 04:10:31 PM by ahrenjb »
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Spoorthuzad

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #687 on: January 15, 2016, 10:51:56 AM »

I'm just waiting for a frigate with a large missile slot so I can put ROLANDs on those.
Flu-X has the Necro Scab, which is just that.
Might be a problem since it only has 35 OP and the large missile weapon needs 40.
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Blaze

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #688 on: January 15, 2016, 11:49:24 AM »

I'm just waiting for a frigate with a large missile slot so I can put ROLANDs on those.
Flu-X has the Necro Scab, which is just that.
Might be a problem since it only has 35 OP and the large missile weapon needs 40.
Ordnance expert 10 knocks that down to 36, or just get +18% OP bonus to mount it.
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.5d
« Reply #689 on: January 16, 2016, 03:11:59 AM »

The crusader is nigh invulnerable with the system on.  It's meant to be used by the AI; it's not so interesting for the player.

Crusaders used by AI is so damn good, they never die XD
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