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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 628869 times)

Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #345 on: March 14, 2015, 03:19:38 PM »

Talk to Histidine; Nexerelin is his gig.
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justxlaugh

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #346 on: March 15, 2015, 04:33:41 PM »

have you ever thought of making a Templar logistics ship or hauler specific to just them? i find it weird that most other battle fleets in game have logistics or haulers to help stay supplied and running yet the Templar require like 10X more supplies and they have nothing..  ::) must be some Templar magic cargo hold in their ships  :P
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #347 on: March 15, 2015, 05:07:34 PM »

Templar ships are actually so efficient that they don't use any supplies at all.  However, the player doesn't know how to use them in this manner, so he/she wastes a ton of supplies keeping them running.
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #348 on: March 19, 2015, 10:48:55 AM »

Gawd demn. I cannot figure out a flagship that busts the Templar without resorting to Neutrino ships and abusing their deep flux reserves coupled with absurd vent rates and Ballista spam.
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Tommy

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #349 on: March 19, 2015, 12:00:14 PM »

You could use tons of vanilla ships. Or Mayorate. Or Shadowyards.

I'm not even including Battleships, because those are almost always a viable choice.

Here are a few examples of cruisers: Driver class (Citadel), Sebastos (Imperium), and my favorite, Tartarus (Shadowyards). Off-course, there are many more. These just came to mind.

PS: The Mayorate battleship with hardened shields can probably stand up to two Paladins and emerge victorious.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 12:02:35 PM by Tommy »
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #350 on: March 19, 2015, 12:39:56 PM »

For me, the ultimate ship (other than missile spam) to wreck templars is the SRA Scylla. A cruiser with two large energy mounts that can endlessly kit the templars ships and negate their firepower with its phase cloak. Probably one of the best flagship cruiser in the game to be honest.
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #351 on: March 19, 2015, 05:35:09 PM »

You could use tons of vanilla ships. Or Mayorate. Or Shadowyards.

I'm not even including Battleships, because those are almost always a viable choice.

Here are a few examples of cruisers: Driver class (Citadel), Sebastos (Imperium), and my favorite, Tartarus (Shadowyards). Off-course, there are many more. These just came to mind.

PS: The Mayorate battleship with hardened shields can probably stand up to two Paladins and emerge victorious.

Citadel wasn't updated when I started my playthrough, I died horribly with the Sebastos and I just don't use Shadowyards ships at all. Their guns are okay but I prefer having extreme range and SHI doesn't have that. And I don't use tons of vanilla ships. Cos friendly AI is reckless at best and Templar frigates can capably handle destroyers or smaller cruisers by themselves, let alone bigger ships. The main thing that gets me is a lack of extremely robust PD. Ballistics is not good enough, it doesn't interdict ~6-9 Clarents at once from the bomber wings and if an Archbishop is present, the Clarent bombardment is endless. Burst Repeater Beams work pretty well but they have such extreme range that they waste their charges on everything that comes remotely near.
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Tommy

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #352 on: March 19, 2015, 06:31:14 PM »

If you're into extreme ranges, and if you do not care for *balance*, you could try the ORI Romb cruiser.

It's basically cheating I guess. I tried it, and I can obliterate 5 Archbishops and 10 Paladins in a single fight, with ONE Romb, without taking a scratch.

But hey, it's not for me.
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #353 on: March 19, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »

I prefer singular ships as opposed to a fleet where most of my losses are out of my hands because the AI doesn't perceive it's enemies and just gets itself encircled with frustrating regularity. Plus there are some things that annoy me about AI compatriots. The Tempest's drone has a pretty hefty agro range on free roam, probably 3x the range of any typical medium energy weapon, but when a Tempest is engaging something, the drone just floats off to the right or left and allows ships to have their shield arc facing the Tempest and the drone. Even if you pilot the Tempest to have the enemy ship between you and your drone, the drone moves around the size to stay more or less at a right angle. Some triple A grade flanking going on there. Even giving the Tempest six drones at once doesn't fix that. They mostly all just bunch up at one side and a token other drone will float on the other side or next to you. They have a more than generous leash to attack a Tempest's target from any angle but they never do. If I'm taking one ship, my ship, into a fight, then anything bad that happens is completely my mistake or underestimation.

For example, so far, I've been underestimating the Templar bombers who are much more eager to dump their entire payload at once than I remember and Clarents are durable enough that ballistic PD doesn't really dish the damage but energy burst PD burn out after overdoing it on the first couple missiles of the volley. It's making me feel the frustration the AI must feel when they try to wander in range of my ship brimming with Gauss Cannons and HVDs. Shields? Nah, dis is kinetic damage, you're not allowed shields. No shields? Nah, dis is emp damage, you're not allowed weapons. So far, I can either tank the Clarents on my shields and be at half flux before the first Jesuit is in range which doesn't leave me cool enough to dump the damage onto the Templar ships as they come in range. Or, I can tank with my face, which works well in a Neutrino ship because they have so much armour, can easily slap Heavy Armour on, have +20% armour from skills and halved damage for hits that only affect your armour, but that only works once or twice, then it reaaaaally bloody hurts. But as Neutrino are my go-to for everything that puts up gud fites, I figured I'd try other ships against them and everything's come up short. Neutrino just lets me be really cheesy by flooding the battlespace with photon needles and using things like the Quasar on the Norn, or the herpderp emitter on the Unsung. Which still amuses me to this day. DERP launchers and HERP emitters. Just needs a LOL cannon to top it off.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #354 on: March 19, 2015, 08:42:08 PM »

I've found Mimir to work quite well; it can even skim away from Paladins trying to run it down with Holy Charge. The now actually-useful Níðhöggr can also prick them from afar, although it'll probably be an annoyance at best.

Random fun fact: A tech 10 AI Desdinova with a good loadout can beat a sim Crusader one-on-one with nary a scratch.
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orost

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #355 on: March 27, 2015, 02:36:06 PM »

Small AI issue: Priwen Burst AI has incorrect timing when targeted with an Arondight Accelerator, activating as soon as you press the fire button. Instead of deflecting or dodging the projectile, it usually gets hit during the vulnerability period after a Burst. It feels as if it isn't taking into account the Accelerator's chargup time.

@Silver Silence: the best Templar-killers are heavy midline ships. High tech is actually bad because it's impossible to reliably shield-tank Templars, and once a high-tech ship has to vent it's done. Midline can shield-tank well but also is tough enough to vent under heavy fire a few times per battle, which you simply have to do while fighting Templars. The primary consideration for fighting Templars is durability. Anything with less than about 10,000 hull and 2,000 armor rating I consider unfit for that duty.

This ultra-late-game (10/10/10) Victory loadout melts through Templar fleets with ease. Anything less than 4 Paladins or an Archbishop and 2 Paladins is trivial and can be easily done without noticeable damage, completely solo. (Since taking the screenshot I've gotten rid of the Rhons and Integrated PD AI in favor of Repair Unit, Aux Thrusters and some more capacitors, but it doesn't make much difference). Quite a lot of its effectiveness can be attributed to the AI problem described at the beggining of this post, though.

An earlier loadout with mostly non-Templar weapons works fairly well too. With 5/whatever/10 skills, it can solo a Paladin. It can't take a Paladin and its support, but I bring support of my own.

For that, I use Dictator heavy cruisers from Interstellar Imperium, fit for short-range combat and maximum tank. They're tough as nails and actually manage to survive most of the time, although the causalty rate remains fairly high and I wouldn't bother to do it without Omnifactory.

The best vanilla solution I can think of is a Conquest fit with long-range guns and Cyclone reaper launchers. It works reasonably well, although it's a bit fragile for the job. Unfortunately, vanilla doesn't have a midline battleship, so a Conquest has to do.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 03:12:36 PM by orost »
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #356 on: March 27, 2015, 04:14:42 PM »

Quote
Small AI issue: Priwen Burst AI has incorrect timing when targeted with an Arondight Accelerator, activating as soon as you press the fire button. Instead of deflecting or dodging the projectile, it usually gets hit during the vulnerability period after a Burst. It feels as if it isn't taking into account the Accelerator's chargup time.
Hyperion (or other ship) can bait a Priwen Burst just by firing at the Templar ship's general direction, even if it has no chance of hitting it due to being far out of range.  Make my Hyperion shoot heavy/mining blaster at Templar ship from more a screen away, Templar bursts, then I can use my usual Hyperion tricks and murder the Templar ship like any other.

That assumes I try to use stock weapons on Hyperion against Templars.  Sentenias are so good that I stick them on everything that would normally use blasters or phase lance, even if something else needs to go.

I will write more feedback on Templars later.
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NightfallGemini

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #357 on: March 28, 2015, 09:18:01 AM »

So I'm getting some strange slowdown issues whenever I fire a Rhon Laser or Clarent. It drops the FPS down to roughly 23 while firing for no discernible reason. It didn't used to do this before, so I'm not sure if it's Shaderlib screwing up or my drivers (using 2 GTX760 OCs) or something with this mod itself.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #358 on: March 28, 2015, 09:38:27 AM »

Rhons, Clarents, a couple other weapons, and all of the ship systems activate the anamorphic flare shader.  It is a pretty GPU intense shader but a 760 should never be bogged down by it.  Frankly your setup is better than mine (I have a single gtx 670 OC) and I get full 60 fps.  Are your drivers up to date?  Try disabling SLI and see if that improves things.
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NightfallGemini

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #359 on: March 28, 2015, 10:12:59 AM »

Running on a single GPU didn't fix, thought it might have been the fact I was running SS in a borderless window but fullscreen it did the same thing. The last thing I have yet to do is reinstall Shaderlib, but AFAIK I have the most recent version so I'm not sure if that'll do anything.

What's funny is, it only slows down when things get very, very chaotic or a Templar weapon gets fired, and even then if I check utilizations it's not taxing the cards at all. Very odd.

E: Oh, forgot to add, the drivers are the most recent version (v347.88).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 10:15:10 AM by NightfallGemini »
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