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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 626839 times)

ahrenjb

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #270 on: January 27, 2015, 12:58:12 PM »

Is the boarding-action self destruct of these ships especially powerful compared to other vessels? I tried to capture a Jesuit class frigate and it cato'd, taking the nearly full health SCY Boar-Class missile cruiser I used with it. Not complaining, or even necessarily saying this should be changed, but I was a little surprised.

Anyway, really interesting mod DR. I'm playing my first game with the Templars and they've certainly added an element of much needed difficulty to the end-game. Haven't captured any vessels yet, but I hope to soon. My first fight against a Templar fleet was a shocking experience to say the least. The whole faction has a very clearly defined feel to them, and it's a major departure from fighting other fleets. It's rarely boring, and I find myself going out of my way to pick fights with smaller fleets for excitement. I only recently managed to destroy my first cruiser sized vessel, very satisfying. I'll also say that despite the challenge they present, they don't give me the "obnoxiously OP" vibe that powerful ships from less experienced modders give off. AI faction fleets can still destroy them easily enough that they don't ruin whole systems at a time, but they certainly present an obstacle of sorts if you're trying to function in a system they're crusading.

I've captured a handful of weapons, but the only one I'm currently using is a single Rhon laser, in the front small universal slot of the II battlecruiser. Great for keeping frigates off my back.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #271 on: January 27, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »

I've captured a handful of weapons, but the only one I'm currently using is a single Rhon laser, in the front small universal slot of the II battlecruiser. Great for keeping frigates off my back.
Yeah, the templar weapons are extremely niche, due to high ordnance point and flux costs.  Powerful, sure, but most of the time you're better off with vanilla weaponry.

(Amusingly, this applies to Templar ships, as well; especially their frigates work wonderfully with a heavy blaster in that medium slot instead of either of the templar medium energy weapons, and their cruisers are a perfect platform for a Mjolnir cannon or plasma cannon... The destroyers & carriers kinda need to use templar weapons, though, due to their low speed - you need all the range you can get, and templar weapons tend to have a significant range advantage over similar vanilla weapons.)

The exceptions tend to come with high-tech ships that have relatively few weapon slots, or phase ships that just work better with high-dps high-cost weapons to start with.  (For example, my current standard Afflictor loadout uses a single rhon laser with the point-defense-AI hullmod - plus 2x antimatter blaster and some torpedos.  And an Apogee with an autopulse laser and 2x longinus is quite potent - if you're careful about hitting hold fire when the lasers are just driving up your flux to no point.)

In general, I think Dark.Revenant went a bit overboard on trying to keep the templar weapons balanced with vanilla ones... but I'll also admit that that's far better than making them no-brainer always-superior options.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:46:52 PM by Wyvern »
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Cyan Leader

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #272 on: January 27, 2015, 03:04:55 PM »

This mods makes me want to start my own boss faction, it's such a neat idea.

By the way, I was a little disappointed when I found out that the fleets in the Templar's system were about the same size as the one sent in crusades. That is supposed to be the hardest area in the game right now so I expected to find some planetary defense fleets with several capitals, but they were pretty small. If you manage to handle the expeditions you'll handle their system fine.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #273 on: January 27, 2015, 05:47:59 PM »

The Templar weapons have to be relatively balanced relative to vanilla weapons to avoid becoming instant-win options.  It's not that hard to kill a few Templar ships to snatch up a Sentenia or Longinus, after all.  The Sentenia is great for the relatively slot-starved Templar ships since it's a great multi-role weapon; it can whack drones and fighters, pressure shields, rip apart hull, and hit flanking targets.  The Longinus can melt through armor very quickly and forces the enemy to keep shields up, which makes the Sentenia extra effective.  The Galatine serves as EMP, shield-breaking damage, and burst damage; vanilla EMP weapons don't really have the punch this thing can dish out.

Their weapons are meant to serve multiple purposes competently.  They're not efficient from a flux or OP point of view but they fill every role just as well as the high-end vanilla weapons.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #274 on: January 27, 2015, 05:52:10 PM »

Also, Templar weapons have really high hit success compared to many vanilla weapons.
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Blaze

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #275 on: January 27, 2015, 07:13:20 PM »

Not to mention they're just really cool.

I love the missile effect, but I've never seen one drop for me. Is it a built-in weapon?
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Tommy

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #276 on: January 27, 2015, 07:56:00 PM »

There are 4 types. Single Clarents, double Clarents, the 5 Clarents I believe and the bigger launcher that launches one Clarent super missile that splits into 4 or 5 other Clarents before impact.

They all drop.
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orost

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #277 on: January 27, 2015, 08:22:33 PM »

The Templar weapons aren't universal "I-win" buttons, but they can be ludicrously powerful if used right. Have you ever tried putting 4 Longinus lasers and a couple Galatines on a Paragon, plus a bunch of Rhon lasers and Integrated PD AI? It outperforms any vanilla Paragon loadout I've tried by a big margin, just melting through waves and waves of enemies, and the Rhons make superbly efficient PD that makes you essentially immune to missiles.

Another very successful build was an Eagle with 2 x Longinus and 2 x Galatine, it absolutely destroyes anything short of a Paladin, and it can kill that too given some support.

Both need extremely careful flux management however - you can't leave the lasers on autofire, you need to be constantly, actively managing them to avoid overload.

That said, I'd be in favor of making these weapons slightly easier to use (small OP and flux reduction) at the cost of being harder to obtain (stop them from appearing in shops! that just feels like cheating!). It would be fun to have more options in using them, not strictly limited to loadouts completely optimized around them.

@Tommy: also the fighter variant, which I think is significantly weaker and obviously doesn't drop. I say it's weaker because when I was trying to kill Jesuits with a Tempest (call me a masochist) a single normal Clarent would overload me from 0 flux, but I could take two fighter Clarents and end up at around 95%.

@Blaze: if you're playing SS+, check black markets everywhere. The standard small launcher seems to be strangely common on them.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 08:25:50 PM by orost »
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #278 on: January 27, 2015, 08:36:24 PM »

I put a single Longinus on my Mimir. It's absolutely hilarious against fighters/frigates and anything with its shields down, especially when it comes to hoisting Templar units by their own petard.

That is supposed to be the hardest area in the game right now so I expected to find some planetary defense fleets with several capitals, but they were pretty small. If you manage to handle the expeditions you'll handle their system fine.
And if you can't handle their system defences, you can just wait for the Luddic Purification Fleet and follow it around killing all the Templar fleets it weakens. Great for farming.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #279 on: January 27, 2015, 09:37:30 PM »

@Tommy: also the fighter variant, which I think is significantly weaker and obviously doesn't drop. I say it's weaker because when I was trying to kill Jesuits with a Tempest (call me a masochist) a single normal Clarent would overload me from 0 flux, but I could take two fighter Clarents and end up at around 95%.

The fighter version is actually slightly stronger because it does the same damage but regenerates ammo very slowly.  However, fighters never benefit from Combat 10's net +70% missile damage boost.
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Tommy

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #280 on: January 27, 2015, 10:36:35 PM »

No idea man, but Starsector without Templars is not Starsector. And I'm saying this with all my heart. It's like the end-game content. And like someone else beautifully said above, you do not get the sense of that traditional OP of adding many zeros to damage (Like the ORI faction is, for example).

Now I'd just wish we could take over stations like we used to do in the previous mod versions of the popular ones, so I can actually "finish" the game :)
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #281 on: January 30, 2015, 07:51:15 AM »

After capturing my first Paladin I finally figured out what Logistical Conservation is good for.
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orost

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #282 on: February 04, 2015, 03:11:05 AM »

Suggestion regarding Antioch: I feel the system isn't dangerous enough. It's no big deal to pop in and make a circle around the system without getting into a single fight, which I think is odd for the home system of an endgame boss faction. If there were two jump points, one entry-only near Ascalon and the other exit-only at fringe, and if fleets there were much more aggressive that would make entering the system an adventure with some risk involved. I wonder if exit-only jump points can be done, though - there aren't any in the game, are there?
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NightfallGemini

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #283 on: February 05, 2015, 08:56:48 PM »

Just chiming in to say I finally got my hands on a Jesuit and it owns. Easily one of the most entertaining ships I've flown around solo.

The Schism Drive really does tack down how it feels to be a flying space sword.
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Sabaton

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #284 on: February 06, 2015, 09:25:19 AM »

 Can you shed some details about the eventually-to-arrive battleship that will blow everyone socks off?
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