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Author Topic: [0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0  (Read 13312 times)

Zym

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[0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« on: May 11, 2021, 12:12:04 PM »

Can be added during a campaign.
Can be safely removed from a campaign.
Affects the Starlight Cabal Doom from Underworld as well.



Active changes
  • Removes the ability to deploy mines while phasing.
  • Reduces the range of the mine strike system from 1500 to 800.



Goal of the mod
  • Make the Doom less annoying to play against and less overpowered to play as.
  • Make it harder and riskier to use well.
  • Keep its core identity as a backstabbing ship intact.
  • Make sure that the AI is able to use the changed ship well.
  • Do it with as few changes as possible.



Footage of the changes in action

No skills and normal loadout.
No skills and normal loadout.

Optimized loadout with skills against 2 radiant remnant fleet.
Optimized loadout with skills against 2 radiant remnant fleet.





« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 03:04:50 PM by Zym »
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Hellya

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Re: Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 02:54:23 PM »

Can be added during a campaign.
Can be safely removed from a campaign.
Affects the Starlight Cabal Doom from Underworld as well.



Active changes
  • Removes the ability to deploy mines while phasing.
  • Reduces the range of the mine strike system from 1500 to 800.



Goal of the mod
  • Make the Doom less annoying to play against and less overpowered to play as.
  • Make it harder and riskier to use well.
  • Keep its core identity as a backstabbing ship intact.
  • Make sure that the AI is able to use the changed ship well.
  • Do it with as few changes as possible.



Footage of the changes in action

No skills and normal loadout.
No skills and normal loadout.

Optimized loadout with skills against 2 radiant remnant fleet.
Optimized loadout with skills against 2 radiant remnant fleet.




It was just a matter of time before this happened. The thing is OP and annoying all at once.
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Cathair

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Re: [0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 04:55:37 PM »

I've been using this for the past week, and I consider it a new staple. I think it's pretty balanced- I find that I can still do a little more with a Doom than I can with a capital of higher DP cost, but it takes investment and some thought. Seems about right. Also, your videos were interesting to watch, so thanks for that.


However, I've been wondering if you'd be willing to release your source code so we can putz around with range values ourselves. I've gone from hesitant about the range at first sight, to accepting once I actually played it, to a little chafed by it after a while. I want to stress that this is strictly a comfort and gameplay flow issue; it doesn't need to be any better from a balance perspective. My points of contention are:

- with the Doom needing to be in normal weapons range to use its mines, I often find them redundant. The way you use it in your video on overloaded targets with a high-alpha AMB loadout looks great, but when I'm doing the same, it seems just as effective to pop into phase to keep flux down and quickly get a second salvo off, rather than spend that flux on mines that might get shot down or evaded. Using them to exploit AI shield management is still alive and well, but at close range and especially with allied support, I'd often rather force an overload on the shield than bypass it. I feel like giving some range back would make the mines more distinct as a weapon, at the cost of being objectively overpowered and exploitable.

- friendly AI Dooms seem hardest hit by the change, because they don't know how to manage the AoE, or their own flux. Doom fleets have always been kinda no-chill towards friendly frigates, but now they seem to be cracking their own armor a lot more. I don't notice it much on enemy Dooms, since they have a shorter lifespan in the first place, and don't have to worry about post-battle repairs. It makes all-phase or majority-phase fleets kind of a meme, I think. And maybe they should be, but eh, I'd like to have it as a viable option.

So, I'd like the option to have a just little cheese, as a treat. But I don't want to go back to Dooms dropping mines from phase, which I think is the most important balance change here, for both enemies and the player. Enemy Dooms being able to flee in phase while insta-dropping whole stacks of mines on the frigates fast enough to pursue them is insane, and so is the player being able to deploy artillery from complete safety.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 04:59:02 PM by Cathair »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 07:47:51 PM »

I think the biggest problem is damage which the mod didn't address.
It is still as deadly as it used to be against smaller ships and with a heavy armor + enough other ships as distractions it rack havoc no matter what.

Simply by making the damage type fragment it will be less likely immediate deleting ships but be as effective deleting fighter wings.

UserNameViolation

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Re: [0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2021, 05:11:10 AM »

I've been using this for the past week, and I consider it a new staple. I think it's pretty balanced- I find that I can still do a little more with a Doom than I can with a capital of higher DP cost, but it takes investment and some thought. Seems about right. Also, your videos were interesting to watch, so thanks for that.


However, I've been wondering if you'd be willing to release your source code so we can putz around with range values ourselves. I've gone from hesitant about the range at first sight, to accepting once I actually played it, to a little chafed by it after a while. I want to stress that this is strictly a comfort and gameplay flow issue; it doesn't need to be any better from a balance perspective. My points of contention are:

- with the Doom needing to be in normal weapons range to use its mines, I often find them redundant. The way you use it in your video on overloaded targets with a high-alpha AMB loadout looks great, but when I'm doing the same, it seems just as effective to pop into phase to keep flux down and quickly get a second salvo off, rather than spend that flux on mines that might get shot down or evaded. Using them to exploit AI shield management is still alive and well, but at close range and especially with allied support, I'd often rather force an overload on the shield than bypass it. I feel like giving some range back would make the mines more distinct as a weapon, at the cost of being objectively overpowered and exploitable.

- friendly AI Dooms seem hardest hit by the change, because they don't know how to manage the AoE, or their own flux. Doom fleets have always been kinda no-chill towards friendly frigates, but now they seem to be cracking their own armor a lot more. I don't notice it much on enemy Dooms, since they have a shorter lifespan in the first place, and don't have to worry about post-battle repairs. It makes all-phase or majority-phase fleets kind of a meme, I think. And maybe they should be, but eh, I'd like to have it as a viable option.

So, I'd like the option to have a just little cheese, as a treat. But I don't want to go back to Dooms dropping mines from phase, which I think is the most important balance change here, for both enemies and the player. Enemy Dooms being able to flee in phase while insta-dropping whole stacks of mines on the frigates fast enough to pursue them is insane, and so is the player being able to deploy artillery from complete safety.

Totally agree with points above. I changed range to 1200 instead of 800 and now friendly AI seems more capable of dealing with blast. You can do it yourself too
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SirBrodacious

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Re: [0.95a] Rebalanced Doom 1.0
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2021, 05:43:10 PM »

As an avid Doom player I think this is great, given the fact that a single fully kitted doom can easily 1v1 whole fleets lol
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