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[Alex]

Blog post here.

[LazyWizard]

So if I'm reading this right, we actually can have a profitable trade route outside of an event, but it'll come at the expense of undermining the area's stability (via smuggling)?

[MasterGlink]

Good to see more frequent updates to the blog, felt like the game went dark for quite a while before this and the art blog posts rolled in. I like the way the market system is shaping up so far, hopefully it'll allow for some interesting interactions through smuggling and looting. Right now doing trading runs is rather stale, since there's no challenge aside from pirates. Maybe they'll be some room for sneaky stuff later or breaking faction's embargo or blockades. It would definitely spice up game play to see a few ships that could be made into specialized freighters for smuggling, focusing on speed and being able to outrun any interceptors without the need to obliterate them in combat.

[Alex]

So if I'm reading this right, we actually can have a profitable trade route outside of an event, but it'll come at the expense of undermining the area's stability (via smuggling)?

Possibly. I'm not entirely decided on how I feel about that (at least, the "profitable trade route outside of an event" part - I do like smuggling being destabilizing). It'd be easy enough to add a markdown to black market sell prices and make that impossible; the fences have to make a living etc. On the flip side, there needs to be *some* reason to smuggle, and it feels like taking that away completely (outside of events/missions) could be too restricting. Being forced into smuggling to make a profit off trade also has a feel to it that I like. As the post alludes to, though, this has UI implications. All in all, still thinking this through.

Good to see more frequent updates to the blog, felt like the game went dark for quite a while before this and the art blog posts rolled in.

In general terms, no blog post in a while usually just means that I'm extra busy doing stuff Not that it's ever less than extra busy, but, you know.

I like the way the market system is shaping up so far, hopefully it'll allow for some interesting interactions through smuggling and looting. Right now doing trading runs is rather stale, since there's no challenge aside from pirates. Maybe they'll be some room for sneaky stuff later or breaking faction's embargo or blockades. It would definitely spice up game play to see a few ships that could be made into specialized freighters for smuggling, focusing on speed and being able to outrun any interceptors without the need to obliterate them in combat.

Yeah, I think we're on the same page here. Making all these things work is going to be interesting, a lot depends on the details. I will say that there's been some mention of smuggling-specific hullmods internally

[xenoargh]

Wow, nice; solid work on the UI and the concepts there, really liking the feel of that

[FasterThanSleepyfish]

I can dig that interface!  

Although, faction planets/stations just got a more complex! More thought must be put into the factions now. I'm guessing it's going to be especially difficult for mods like UsS and Exerelin, which will probably need a total overhaul's worth of work to be compatible with the new mechanics.

EDIT: Wait, so hull-mods are now going to limited/cost money? I guess that makes sense, but I would hate to see the ITU cost 35% of the ship's value when you find one copy of it at a station. Or, will the limited availability be for hull-mods like MShadowy's Harmonic Flux Conduits, because they are a faction based tech?

[Bribe Guntails]

*** yes I like this a lot!

Stability, tariffs, supply/demand, sub-markets, market conditions, trade routes and commodity details.

My only gripe would be that the commodity info is not really intuitive. It may need more detail regarding what means what.

Still good stuff!

[Alex]

Wow, nice; solid work on the UI and the concepts there, really liking the feel of that

I can dig that interface!  

Thank you! Rather fond of how the UI came out myself, glad it's not just me

Although, faction planets/stations just got a more complex! More thought must be put into the factions now. I'm guessing it's going to be especially difficult for mods like UsS and Exerelin, which will probably need a total overhaul's worth of work to be compatible with the new mechanics.

"Compatible" shouldn't be all that bad; "making full use of" is a different animal. Though, still, maybe not that bad. The actual setup of markets is pretty simple.

EDIT: Wait, so hull-mods are now going to limited/cost money? I guess that makes sense, but I would hate to see the ITU cost 35% of the ship's value when you find one copy of it at a station. Or, will the limited availability be for hull-mods like MShadowy's Harmonic Flux Conduits, because they are a faction based tech?

I meant "smuggling-specific" in the sense of "affecting how smuggling works", not in the way you're thinking.

My only gripe would be that the commodity info is not really intuitive. It may need more detail regarding what means what.

Tooltips! Each little group of icons has a tooltip that explains what it is. I'm hoping that's enough to make it make sense. Once you know what's what, I'm, at least, finding it easy to read at a glance.

[Uomoz]

Wooooow. I'm digging it! And I also imagine that we will be able to mod in more commodities/market conditions? Can't wait to see how the whole thing works underneath the new cool interface.

Also, I see at least 4 new systems to explore. Neat!

[Toxcity]

This update is looking better with each update.

Btw, is that the official Hegemony faction logo on the trade screen?

[Alex]

And I also imagine that we will be able to mod in more commodities/market conditions? Can't wait to see how the whole thing works underneath the new cool interface.

Yep. It's largely the same way other stuff works, modding wise - lots of .csv files and plugins.

Btw, is that the official Hegemony faction logo on the trade screen?

It's the latest iteration. Whether it's "official" depends on whether David decides it needs another update or not

[Blackout1943]

interesting to see a new play style for the game.

looking good

[Debido]

How profitable a trade route is and for how long can be determined by an algorithm. Certainly the complex trading system in X3 is more than likely too time consuming to implement. Anyway, any trade route should decrease in return on value as the market is saturated by the goods you or another pirate/entrepreneur is selling. I suppose you could do a simplified algorithm that has 'fudge' factor in it or certain assumptions. Like any market where there is the ability for arbitrage, the economy will find an equilibrium. I don't disagree with trade with routes, but all things being equal in a fairly well simulated economy there should be marginal profit in it for the player that is proportional to the risk the player takes.

All that said it seems the market conditions go a long way towards simulating those conditions, forcing the player to look for newer trade routes when the current one has been saturated with commodities.

I also like the concept of the player being able to blockade most of a planet's supplies as has been discussed by others previously, and forcing conditions that favour them selling goods. I would expect the player to take fairly proportional losses if they tried to blockade supplies, and eventually the said planet could hire the independents or some other enormous fleet to come and try and crush you.

You did want to discuss the black market and consequences of selling them through that channel. Destabilising the government? Great. Again though I can imagine that as the black market is saturated, and the governing body of the planet cracks down harder and harder on the black market - the black market might impose it's own tarrif for 'bribing' law enforcement, or for them needing more security or better tech and more people to help organise the logistical problem of moving such large quantities of black market goods. So in that respect the black market can be balanced with the normal market and the planet is never completely de-stabilised.

I am curious though about pirate markets/pirate bases when you're trading with them. I don't imagine there being a 'black market' there...hm...I suppose you'll just have the one sub-market in those cases. Although maybe you could sell medical supplies, food and weapons to the pirates' slaves so they can overthrow the pirate mercenary leaders???

Perhaps one consequence you're suggesting is that eventually you can supply enough illegal goods to the black market that a rebel faction takes over as the governing body. In which case, what is the difference between the two governing bodies? Will this effect your standing with other factions? I remember in the earlier Exerelin builds a faction could splinter off into a rebel faction and they would fight each other. I assume that in the case that a rebel faction did take over you'd be in good standing with them...eh.

Anyway, I like the UI even if it isn't immediately interpretable. Hm, actually the commodity screen is not that intuitive at all. Granted it's not an X3 spreadsheet, which is good but it doesn't tell me how much demand there is in qty. Looking over the right at top imports. 81% of imports is food or approximately 2900 units which is represented by 5 food icons...2900 ? 5? So there is a demand for about 3000 units of fuel, 600 units of food and 600 domestic goods?

This new trade system a long way towards the procedural universe you envision. Looking good so far.

[Thaago]

Woohooooo! I am so incredibly excited for this stuff! The UI looks amazingly clean for the amount of information I'm seeing.

Are those import/export quantities and percentages determined by the engine in response to supply/demand or are they coded in? For example, if we modded in a system/planet that had a large fuel surplus, would it automatically export to Corvus, or would we need to set that kind of thing up?

From the hint that the stability could be effecting patrol regularity and composition, am I guessing that something that could be getting a rework are the .faction files/how to make fleets?

[frag971]

I have a problem reading the commodities screen. I have no idea what those stacks of icons mean without reading your explanation.

My suggestion:
- Subtly split the rows of items into two colums, basically allign what you already have along the arrow at vertical axis
- On the left have what the planet has and needs.
- On the right show what the player has in its inventory.
- Green means: planet's = good price to buy. player's = being used by fleet.
- Red means its missing. If its a planet = you profit more by selling to them, if its you means you're missing that to work (red crew=you need more crew).
- Yellow means illegal or modified price. Usually contraband or oversupplied/demanded item.
- The arrow doesn't mean anything and could go away.



So in the above picture i edited with paint.net:
- Metals - you can buy them for cheap (green) to sell elsewhere.
- Hand Weapons - most of it is cheap, some is normal price.
- Food - the player has some food and needs more (lets assume its needed like supplies). Buy some from the planet so your fleet can function.
- Supplies - normal prices on both ends.
- Crew - the planet is selling discounted crew and crew at normal prices. The player is using all of the crew and selling it means putting ships under strength.
- Organics - cheap organics on the planet.
- Domestic goods - the planet needs these badly, sell all of yours for phat profits now.
- Fuel - planet has some fuel and needs more - good profit from this.

Hope its clear. I'd wager the colours could change again - my best idea is to make the colours a trading skill learning in the character advancement screen where invensting in a skill would give those coloured outlines telling the player what's good to buy or sell ("green = do it, red = don't do it" kind of thing)