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Author Topic: [0.97a] Interstellar Imperium 2.6.4  (Read 940235 times)

Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2014, 02:35:30 PM »

Exploit found: Unlike almost every other system, Thracia effectively has two super-city ports (Babylon and Byzantium), so if one of them ever has a shortage you can go to the other and ship the tens of thousands of goods it has in its open/military/black markets.  It's much shorter (less than a day, as opposed to interstellar trade routes which take a week+) so are also much cheaper in terms of supply usage, to say nothing of the fact you don't need to burn a single drop of fuel since it's in-system. It effectively makes almost every other possible trade route obsolete while either of the two has a shortage. You can make hundreds of thousands of credits in real-world minutes, with nil risk.

I'm somewhat confused that either of those entities can ever have a food shortage.  They've got massive fleets running between them day in and day out, and Byzantium is a huge food producer, near the level of Tartessus.
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Regularity

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2014, 08:03:38 PM »

Well, there are a number of things:
- Shortages don't have to be just for food, after all. Since both ports carry (almost) every type of good in large amounts, a shortage of any good can be capitalized by shipping stuff from one of the ports to the other.
- Food shortages can and do occur, however. Most notably trade disruptions from the Knights Templar. And even player-driven ones if they buy out all the food (as I once did, delivering food to a neighbouring star system and buying out all the food).

At this point I've honestly stopped trading in Thracia out of choice because it feels too much like cheating. I make far, far more credits (measured in both in-game days and real life time) doing Babylon-Byzantium runs than I do with any other run. Or bounty-hunting. There's also no risk to them, unlike real interstellar trade routes, which have not only marauding pirates but the risk of a shortage ending before you reach your target system.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2014, 02:09:46 AM »

There's basically no fix to that.  Babylon is hyper-reliant on food, being a massive station with little ability to grow food.  I made Byzantium specialized towards food with a very high demand met percentage (90%-ish) to avoid this sort of thing.  If that doesn't work, nothing will.

If I remove Byzantium, the market will be in a perpetual food shortage and be extremely sensitive to mods and such; just installing Shadowyards could swing Babylon from 9 stability to 2.  Even just moving it out of system into some other system (aside from requiring a lot of work -- trust me, it's not easy to make good systems) would cause major issues.

Basically, the only thing I can do is throw away the entire campaign implementation and start again from scratch with a completely different idea.  I do not have time to do this in 2014.

I'm considering releasing an update with the campaign mode stuff completely removed.  This is unacceptable and I can't fix it in a reasonable amount of time.


Edit: It was quite honestly a mistake to release this mod at all.  I should have waited until January when I will have time to actually test and balance things.  This applies to the Templars as well.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 02:14:30 AM by Dark.Revenant »
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Sovietpride

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2014, 12:48:01 PM »



Edit: It was quite honestly a mistake to release this mod at all.  I should have waited until January when I will have time to actually test and balance things.  This applies to the Templars as well.

Please don't say that. At least we can play it. Installed it, got it running and having so much fun with it.

ALthough if i did have a quibble, the templar ships being immune to the TITAN launcher (non-MIRV olympus-class launcher) did make me cry.

Also, is it deliberate that the launcher crashes to like, 7% CR after launch?

Also weighing in on an earlier comment about aesthetics - I personally like the fact the models here actually "look" like they belong in the game.
Nothing against other mods, but none of them seem quite as... gritty. And it has a great charm to it.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 12:50:31 PM by Sovietpride »
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Nori

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2014, 01:07:53 PM »

Agree with Sovietpride. I'm having a blast with it. My only quibble is that for some reason I can't buy storage on any of the Imperium bases.
But otherwise it works out really well. Hegemony shows up trying to beat up the Imperium and they fight back and it's lotsa fun.   :)
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2014, 04:26:28 PM »

The fact of the matter is that their system has a major, unfixable exploit.  As you demonstrated, not even removing storage was able to prevent major abuse.  The best I could do is make them immune to trade disruptions by forcing them to end as soon as they start.
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Regularity

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2014, 05:21:53 PM »

I know no one likes to retcon their lore, but what about just making Babylon a military fortress instead of a metropolis tradepost? That way it'd only carry military-style goods, drastically cutting down on the number of potential intra-system trade runs. You could even nerf the population a bit so that when there is a fuel/supply/gun shortage, it can only be exploited for one or two runs.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2014, 05:25:03 PM »

I know no one likes to retcon their lore, but what about just making Babylon a military fortress instead of a metropolis tradepost? That way it'd only carry military-style goods, drastically cutting down on the number of potential intra-system trade runs. You could even nerf the population a bit so that when there is a fuel/supply/gun shortage, it can only be exploited for one or two runs.

I suppose that is an option, but that still requires a total redo of Thracia.  I would not be able to keep much.
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2014, 10:37:14 PM »

Market balance change update.  I didn't have time for anything else, so I just made Babylon and Byzantium the same market, pushed them closer together (and cleaned up the orbits etc.), and there you go.


Download Interstellar Imperium 1.5.1
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 2.0b)
(Requires ShaderLib Beta v1.01)
(Supported by Starsector+ 2.0.6)

We also recommend Version Checker 1.2 to notify you when an update is ready.


Version 1.5.1 (November 18, 2014):
- Babylon and Byzantium are now one connected market called Interstellar Bazaar
- Minor fixes and balance changes
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 11:14:30 AM by Dark.Revenant »
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Regularity

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2014, 11:08:26 AM »

If you've combined the markets to prevent intra-system, does this mean you can safely re-add storage space without running the risk of market exploitation! I, and many others it seems, would like to see some storage on Babylon, or at the very least , Byzantine? Thracia's central location on the map makes it great for a primary warehouse for ships and goods. Pretty please!
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2014, 03:50:53 PM »

Babylon is a very strong market that you can get good prices at for many goods at the same time.  Storage there would be rather imbalanced.  You can travel to the other planets in the system for storage.
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Reh

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2014, 07:51:06 AM »

Couldn't download your mod, it says you've gone over your bandwidth.

I've taken it onto myself today to point out the download mirror link, just underneath the main link.
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TartarusMkII

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2014, 09:03:19 AM »

Hello, I apologize that I have not read the entire thread, but I want to ensure you, Revenant, that I think this mod and the templars are better to exist than not, even if they are not perfectly balanced yet.

I wanted to share something I found playing SS+ today though. There is intel for a trade disruption at "Interstellar Bazaar", and it took me a while to figure out where that is actually reffering to. In the Intel screen it says location: Babylon (Thracia). I'm sure this is just a naming issue, but otherwise it could be confusing as to where the intel is actually referring to.

Hope I could help!
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2014, 02:19:50 PM »

For balance reasons, Babylon and Byzantium are both the Interstellar Bazaar.

It is not standard naming convention but I think it adds flavor. Plus once you get to Thracia, it is pretty obvious where the trade hub is.
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.65.1a] Interstellar Imperium v1.5.1
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2014, 08:16:35 PM »

Anyone have a trick for gaining Imperium reputation that doesn't involve slugging it out with gigantic Hegemony fleets?
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It is law that any specific ship you want will not be available. If it is available, it will be gone by the time you're capable of buying it.
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