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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 257928 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #390 on: October 24, 2014, 06:43:20 PM »

Could, yeah. The danger there is the player completely missing what's going on (because it's pretty much hidden) and it looking random. The other question is whether this would make the game more fun or not. The scouting thing seems like it could get tedious.
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #391 on: October 24, 2014, 07:49:41 PM »

You know, there's an alternative: instead of changing the AI's behavior to make it "stop cheating", what happens if we change the rules so that what it's doing isn't cheating?  A simple "XYZ hull detected approaching the battlefield" message to the player would provide the same information the AI has, and thus stop the "cheat".  So the next question is, is there any way for the player to exploit that information (that they couldn't already do by just zipping in with a fast frigate and scouting)?
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Sundog

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #392 on: October 24, 2014, 08:04:08 PM »

Yeah, that's exploitable. The catch is that whoever deploys last would have the advantage of knowing what they're up against.

Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #393 on: October 24, 2014, 08:07:00 PM »

Yeah, that's exploitable. The catch is that whoever deploys last would have the advantage of knowing what they're up against.
Explain how that's exploitable, please?  Whoever deployed first could, y'know, just deploy more ships if they needed to.
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Sundog

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #394 on: October 24, 2014, 08:57:59 PM »

Hmm. Yeah, I guess I should have elaborated to begin with.

I think it's exploitable only because most ships have pretty solid counters. If it were only a matter of scaling up power until both sides are happy the only issue would be the tedium of deploying one or two ships at a time, but there are circumstances in which weak ships can easily defeat vastly more powerful ships. As an extreme example, a player-piloted Hound fitted with a heavy mauler can reliably beat an Onslaught. The AI can't be expected to understand counters like that, so it will always think an Onslaught trumps a Hound. With a varied fleet and decent knowledge of the ships involved a player would frequently be able to counter the AI's first wave of ships with a wave that seems much weaker, but actually has major advantages.

Darloth

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #395 on: October 25, 2014, 01:37:17 AM »

Don't tell players the hull then, just the size.

"Frigate size contact approaching"

"Multiple Frigates, 2x Cruiser approaching "
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #396 on: October 25, 2014, 05:42:34 AM »

Previous versions told us incoming enemy ships, but not anymore.
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NONOCE

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #397 on: October 25, 2014, 06:07:09 AM »

Here is a battle I recorded that show me taking advantage of the AI deployment strategy. I clearly shouldn't have won, at least not without any loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I1yUIZIhcXI
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 06:13:29 AM by NONOCE »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #398 on: October 25, 2014, 06:20:57 AM »

I fought a few named fleets with skilled captains and... they are barely any harder than non-skilled fleets.  The only one I noticed was an Onslaught with high Missile Specialization (Annihilators were much faster than normal), and my max Combat/Technology Wolf still had no trouble killing it.

@ NONOCE:  That is how most of my combats are like once I gain enough skills - a single champion that slaughters everyone.
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Toxcity

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #399 on: October 25, 2014, 06:30:12 AM »

I think some of the problem might be that every fleet is composed of green crew atm.
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #400 on: October 25, 2014, 07:33:23 AM »

I might be able to tell what effect enemy admiral skills have if I knew what skills they had to begin with...

Are there/will there be any technologically advanced AI fleets with things like +20% OP and all the cool hullmod bells and whistles like ITU and Expanded Missile Racks? (hint: implement this old idea for dynamic AI ship variants)
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Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #401 on: October 25, 2014, 07:40:14 AM »

I fought a few named fleets with skilled captains and... they are barely any harder than non-skilled fleets.  The only one I noticed was an Onslaught with high Missile Specialization (Annihilators were much faster than normal), and my max Combat/Technology Wolf still had no trouble killing it.

Wait, what? Named captains have skills? I thought that wasn't in the game yet! I never noticed it, that's how little impact it makes.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #402 on: October 25, 2014, 10:23:01 AM »

I for one am having fun with the named bounties but I'd like to ask/say a few things.

1. Do they get harder the more you kill them/level up? I have a feeling that after I've done a few 60-90k ones those above 100k and all the way until 200k started showing up a lot more often, some even having more than one Onslaught.
2. Are they capped at 3-4? haven't seen more offers than that.
3. As much as they are a nice addition, it does get tiring after a while, the exp you get from them is redundant once you hit lvl35 or so and you might as well just abandon bounty hunting all together and just buy 3-4 Atlas and cash in on the mad XP and Gold from trading. For reference a 200k gold bounty is giving me around 50k XP while a multi-million trade earns me almost 10 times that amount with much less effort, just traveling with my 5 Atlas around with minimal escort. Maybe bounties should have an XP bonus too just like trades have?
4. Another improvement I suggest from the bounties is for us to be able to hunt stuff that isn't just pirates. What I mean by this is that once you get friendly with one faction maybe you start getting offers for more specific targets? Let's say I get friendly with the Tri-Tachyon corp, once I get to that level the game may start spawning criminals from that faction as bounties for us to kill them, that way we have an opportunity to face something that isn't pirates for 90% of the game, since acquiring ships you want in this version is almost impossible due to scarcity, forcing you to want to be friendly with everyone in order to have more options/opportunities.
5. Bounty targets are usually named fleets and not just a military detachment from somewhere or some random pirates, so in that regard is it possible we could find some ships to face that are only found on bounty battles? We have the skin system now so this seems feasible. Not only this would add some nice variety but it could also present a great opportunity to capture some variants with unique built in augments, which would make it for a great prize and challenge. If my first question is an affirmative and there is a progression system going on I think the game could also greatly benefit from some endgame bounties, having fleets that will only show up once you are cooperative with some factions and having unique hulls as well not found elsewhere.

About the current AI deployment system, honestly I think it's perfect. Most of us are facing pirates here with ships much weaker than ours so it's no wonder we can solo a fleet we shouldn't with a single Wolf, but once the game is better balanced for endgame and we start facing huge fleets with ships as good as ours then this system will shine well. At most I suggest changing the Pirates AI or having different types of AI for different fleets, but otherwise I'd say keep the current system, even if it is technically cheating.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:28:42 AM by Cyan Leader »
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Steven Shi

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #403 on: October 25, 2014, 12:26:55 PM »

It's the fleet composition and all those D-state pirate ships atm that's giving us human players a huge edge when running as a bounty hunter.

Throw in a few non-talon fighter wings and the lone wolf tactic would hit a brick wall immediately. I expect a patch out soon to address this and/or make it beneficial to go after other faction's fleet.
 
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #404 on: October 25, 2014, 12:32:05 PM »

I think it's due mainly to the fact that every AI fleet has nothing but Green crew, who actually have a negative modifier with target leading, if I remember correctly.

In any case, every ship has green crew, so it's not going to be as effective compared a Regular or Veteran crewed ship.
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