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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 257925 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2014, 09:26:55 AM »

It knows all. ALLLLLL.

Ahem.
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Uomoz

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2014, 09:33:21 AM »

Alex is going mad. It's the release hype.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #152 on: September 28, 2014, 09:58:19 AM »

It knows all. ALLLLLL.
Ahem.
Dude, you can't contain it all! Release it man, release the update! Release it before it kills you!
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Lucax

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #153 on: September 28, 2014, 01:30:16 PM »

I've never been fond of trading in space sims, until I saw this update. This is something else. XP for trading is genius, why is there so few games with this?

But then, shouldn't there be a couple of skills that improve trading in some way? Sure, any skill would help, since it would improve security. Especially +logistics skills, they would allow to have more freighters, but I'm thinking something really oriented towards trading.
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ZweiZeichen

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #154 on: September 28, 2014, 01:35:38 PM »

Sorry, im new to this, but can i download this patch anywhere or is it not released yet?  ??? ;D
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #155 on: September 28, 2014, 01:38:33 PM »

It knows all. ALLLLLL.
Ahem.
Dude, you can't contain it all! Release it man, release the update! Release it before it kills you!

Sounds like some kind of "release by exorcism" dev methodology.

But then, shouldn't there be a couple of skills that improve trading in some way? Sure, any skill would help, since it would improve security. Especially +logistics skills, they would allow to have more freighters, but I'm thinking something really oriented towards trading.

Eventually, yeah. Just too much to cram into this update, along with everything else.

Sorry, im new to this, but can i download this patch anywhere or isnĀ“t it released yet?  ??? ;D

It's not out yet :) When it is, you'll be able to download it here.
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silalus

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #156 on: September 28, 2014, 03:33:17 PM »

So if i'm trading profitably but I also pick up an atlas kill and a lot of loot from that Do I gain XP for the stuff I had originally or do i gain XP for the stuff and the salvage? Can the game differentiate if its all in the same stack?

If I understand correctly the idea is that you get XP for profit not for the sale.

I would imagine this works the same as it does for taxes- cost basis. If that's right, then each discreet item you buy has a cost basis attached to it, and you get xp for selling it based on how much higher than that cost basis you can price it. Salvage could either be flagged as an undefined cost basis and handled separately or assigned a high cost basis.

Now if the game made you pick an accounting method (FIFO vs LIFO, etc), that would make me chuckle. ;D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 05:11:39 PM by silalus »
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Okim

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #157 on: September 28, 2014, 11:44:19 PM »

Nice news on profit XP gain. Kinda what I was always trying to achieve in Ironclads.

Mattk50

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #158 on: September 29, 2014, 07:48:38 AM »

Will this release before you have to live with not having released an update for a full year?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2014, 08:45:41 AM »

So if i'm trading profitably but I also pick up an atlas kill and a lot of loot from that Do I gain XP for the stuff I had originally or do i gain XP for the stuff and the salvage? Can the game differentiate if its all in the same stack?

If I understand correctly the idea is that you get XP for profit not for the sale.

I would imagine this works the same as it does for taxes- cost basis. If that's right, then each discreet item you buy has a cost basis attached to it, and you get xp for selling it based on how much higher than that cost basis you can price it. Salvage could either be flagged as an undefined cost basis and handled separately or assigned a high cost basis.

Now if the game made you pick an accounting method (FIFO vs LIFO, etc), that would make me chuckle. ;D

Something like that, but a bit simpler :)

Will this release before you have to live with not having released an update for a full year?

Yes! I'm definitely counting 0.6.2a as a release, though - but I wouldn't expect it to get too close to that.
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xenoargh

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2014, 08:54:17 AM »

I would count 0.6.2a too.  Anyhow, I get why this part has taken awhile; good part is that it's largely downhill from here :)
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #161 on: September 29, 2014, 09:12:50 AM »

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd prefer "smooth sailing" over "downhill" as the metaphor ;)
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Erick Doe

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #162 on: September 29, 2014, 10:16:29 AM »

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'd prefer "smooth sailing" over "downhill" as the metaphor ;)

That cracked me up!  :D

I'm sure Xenoargh meant the former!
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JT

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #163 on: September 29, 2014, 02:59:18 PM »

  • Removed speed penalty after winning battle

My immediate reaction to this was an indignant "What?!"  As others have mentioned, this promotes kiting, which as I understand it was actively being targetted as an undesirable gameplay style -- and the nerf to tugs (I'll get to that in a minute...) clearly indicates that kiting (with heavy singletons, at least) is considered an undesired gameplay element.

If you're not going to go back on this, then may I suggest a Mount & Blade style reinforcement (in a later version, obviously), where in any scenario that you attack an enemy fleet within shooting distance of another fleet, the other fleet can join on the side they want as reinforcements (to arrive at a later point in the battle, rather than as initial deployments)?

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  • Reduced amount of cargo space taken by ship weapons, now 2/4/8 (was: 5/10/20)
If we're going this route, it might be worthwhile just to make them take up the same amount of space as their OP.

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  • Removed XP gain from losing your own ships

Hrm. "Failure is a great teacher, and I think when you make mistakes and you recover from them and you treat them as valuable learning experiences, then you've got something to share."

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  • Doubled the prices for all ships
  • Balancing:
    • Greatly reduced amount of salvage from battle
    • Fighting combat fleets unlikely to result in high profit unless a bounty is also involved
    • Best opportunity is to attack trade fleets carrying expensive goods
    • Adjusted fuel use and capacity of ships across the board

So we're increasing the value of ships and cargo even more, but we're still sticking with the principle of "we'd rather blow them up than board them and take them intact"...? =)

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  • Ox-class tug: now limited to a maximum of one per ship

From a realism perspective (for whatever good that serves in an environment where Handwavium is perfectly justifiable), I figure this should be based on hull size (hit points) instead.  The larger the ship's actual hull, the more tugs it can accept to boost burn.  The weaker the ship's hull, even in a particularly large ship (e.g., a high-tech glass cannon instead of a low-tech brute), the fewer tugs it can use to augment its speed.

A single tug per ship smacks of arbitrary things done in the name of balance, which may be acceptable in quick-and-dirty RTSes but aren't as readily accepted in games that have a more rigid simulation bent.

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  • Removed "send out salvage teams" from post-engagement options; choices are now "maintain contact with the enemy" (functions as "harry" did) and "stand down"

Is this because "stand down" is redundant, or is this further nerfing of being able to partially recoup your losses in a battle?  I hope the former, because as much as trade is going to be "fun" subjectively, combat still needs to be a viable means of income to justify the vast amount of development time that went into perfecting it.

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  • Made fleet movement slightly less inertial (2x acceleration)

I suppose I like and dislike this simultaneously, since I was usually able to coax ordinarily faster ships into action, Honor Harrington style, by fooling them into navigating the wrong way toward a larger fleet, which they would flee from and then subsequently choose an evasion path which would force them into contact with me.  I like this because the AI should have been smart enough to avoid being boxed in, but dislike this because it makes it even harder to catch meaningful prizes in combat gameplay.

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The rest I'll reserve judgement on until I actually see it, but every other tweak of existing features seems to be right on the money!  (I'm a pessimist at heart so I focus on negative feedback rather than positive feedback, although at least I think it's constructive criticism. =))
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #164 on: September 29, 2014, 03:53:51 PM »

Quote
Hrm. "Failure is a great teacher, and I think when you make mistakes and you recover from them and you treat them as valuable learning experiences, then you've got something to share."
I think this was done to prevent the exploit of purposefully destroying your ships (or sending them against the enemy to die) for more experience.  I have been guilty of sacrificing ships for faster experience gain.  Hopefully, the double XP gain will more than compensate for that.

Most memorable for me is when made my Odyssey flagship fire its plasma cannons to destroy a couple of my destroyers, just for experience.  Runner up is sending disposable ships to board.  If I succeed, I get another ship to send against the enemy to die.  If I fail and the ship explodes and destroys out my ships, I get more XP.  It is a win-win!
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