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Author Topic: Fuel in battles.  (Read 9116 times)

ValkyriaL

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Fuel in battles.
« on: April 01, 2014, 01:27:02 PM »

Which would make sense, because engines consume fuel (duh), and if you run out, you lose power and your ship becomes slower and slower over like 10 seconds until it comes to a stop, then the engine dies.

this would help stop kiting, and encourages drifting, which wouldn't consume as much fuel, since the engine is idle. = more skill involved + more realistic.

This would also give tankers a useful role, refill fuel to ships around them as a ship system, because right now, tankers are pointless unless you want to sit in hyperspace for 30 years. ::)

id imagine this would only need an extra tab in the CSV as well such as fuel consumed per 1000SU or something

whole idea started because I feel I don't have enough to think about in battles, and generally because i want some kind of realism in battles other than blowing stuff up, and because i feel fuel is completely useless right now and only serves as extra money until you have to travel somewhere which barely consumes anything to begin with, i figured it should be given the same kind of importance supplies have.

Thoughts?
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Megas

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2014, 02:06:40 PM »

As long as fuel is not used in systems, no thanks.  It is not more skill, just yet another timer and headache to deal with and/or possibly yet another weakness to exploit with the AI.

I do not want to be forced to use tankers.  Being forced to use superfreighters just to loot stuff from one battle without going overcapacity hurts too much already.

If kiting is to be stopped in all battles, either all ships need peak performance or all weapons use non-rechargeable ammo.

Kiting alone is not worst problem, the AI's inability to deal with (circle-)strafing is what makes it very weak against fast enough ships.
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Wyvern

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 02:18:16 PM »

Thoughts?
I think today is april first.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

ValkyriaL

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2014, 02:43:35 PM »

Well, blowing up stuff is fun and all, but i'm a hardcore player, i want more than that, we do have difficulty choices between easy and normal now, where people like me that want more out of the game and simply want to torture myself with difficulty can play normal mode, the more stuff you have to keep track off, the more skill is involved in managing them all effectively, this is a fact. thus why so many new players hated on CR for example because it was to hard for them, since difficulty choices didn't exist when that came in.

tankers and superfreighters are part of the game, there is not a single army in reality or fantasy that i know of that don't have supply lines of trucks carrying fuel, food and ammunition, if you want a huge fleet to stomp stuff, you must have logistic ships. or keep your fleet small with elite craft that can survive on their own without logistic support.

I do not want to be forced to use tankers.  Being forced to use superfreighters just to loot stuff from one battle without going overcapacity hurts too much already.
you don't need a freighter to loot a battle or even 5 battles, you take the stuff of most value, which would probably be like 3 things out of 15, have plenty of space for more, and still earn just as much as you would filling your cargo with garbage.

even if all weapons used ammo, you could simply dodge the enemy and wait for him to waste his ammo on you trying to get a shot in, giving all ships a peak performance time would be neat, not even a battleship can fight for all eternity.

the AI shooting after things it cannot hit is annoying yes, but that doesn't make it weak, just change the AIs lead aiming and he will hit you every time regardless of speed, but.. how fun would that be for new players trying to learn the game if the AI completely stomps them?


Thoughts?
I think today is april first.

Indeed, ;) managed to get Uomoz mad. huehue.
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Uomoz

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2014, 02:46:27 PM »

mad? xD
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2014, 02:55:55 PM »

>.> not really, but your reaction/ragequit was pretty funny, anyway, back to topic? fuel in them fuel tanks? yus?

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Wyvern

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2014, 03:03:55 PM »

Actually, the obvious use for fuel in battles is in the size and effect of ship destruction explosions.  A prometheus tanker, for example, should be able to clear out most of a battle by going kamikaze.
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Megas

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2014, 03:44:26 PM »

I am a more casual player who dislikes complexity for complexity's sake.

I loathe CR, and still do.  Ships other than my max Combat 100% CR flagship break down too fast unless I game the system (i.e., never retreat, deploy all ships then stand down to cause less pain to all ships, etc.)

Tankers and freighters are part of the game, but they should not be always required for optimal play.  Best for a specific task, fine.  Required for basic, everyday functions, painful.  As for loot, if I want to take enough supplies to earn a profit, I need freighters.  I have tried taking stuff of most value and leaving junk weapons before, but the loot is simply too much unless I have multiple freighters.  Before 0.6, a few multirole ships like Mule, Venture, Apogee, or Odyssey would have been enough.  Now, I need at least an Atlas or three.

AI is weak because it does not learn.  After a minute or more of continuous circle-strafing, one would think even a green gunner would begin to adjust or randomize his aim, but the AI does not even try.  This makes the AI extremely predictable and vulnerable.  I do not ask for perfect aim unless I have Gunnery Implants 10, but I expect the AI to try something different after a period of obvious failure, even if it is as simple as firing a random, wildly (un)aimed shot.

Fuel can be fun in combat, if used as improvised bombs or fuel for enhanced ship explosions.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2014, 05:02:14 PM »

fuel would also allow you to cause fuel fires, where high explosive damage type ammo would hit along the back and set the ship on fire in various places which would burn for 50% damage that the original shell caused. ( so if my ether which hits for 1000, sets an onslaught on fire, he would burn for 500 damage over like 10 seconds)
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TJJ

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2014, 05:56:36 PM »

Dump fuel would be a really fun special ability :)
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Uomoz

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2014, 06:06:40 PM »

AI is weak because it does not learn.  After a minute or more of continuous circle-strafing, one would think even a green gunner would begin to adjust or randomize his aim, but the AI does not even try.  This makes the AI extremely predictable and vulnerable.  I do not ask for perfect aim unless I have Gunnery Implants 10, but I expect the AI to try something different after a period of obvious failure, even if it is as simple as firing a random, wildly (un)aimed shot.

This will only happen until AI will properly use skills in vanilla. You don't want to circlestrafe an enforcer with maulers and combat 10 in UsS or SS+ :D.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2014, 07:59:14 PM »

Which would make sense, because engines consume fuel (duh), and if you run out, you lose power and your ship becomes slower and slower over like 10 seconds until it comes to a stop, then the engine dies.

this would help stop kiting, and encourages drifting, which wouldn't consume as much fuel, since the engine is idle. = more skill involved + more realistic.

This would also give tankers a useful role, refill fuel to ships around them as a ship system, because right now, tankers are pointless unless you want to sit in hyperspace for 30 years. :)

id imagine this would only need an extra tab in the CSV as well such as fuel consumed per 1000SU or something

whole idea started because I feel I don't have enough to think about in battles, and generally because i want some kind of realism in battles other than blowing stuff up, and because i feel fuel is completely useless right now and only serves as extra money until you have to travel somewhere which barely consumes anything to begin with, i figured it should be given the same kind of importance supplies have.

Thoughts?
Excuse my language but F*** NO! All I see are nothing but gamey and broken mechanics, extra (and most likely hidden) timers, and AI exploits!
How the hell is this supposed to be balanced for the main game? Or makes sense lore wise? Did you ever consider that maybe, just MAYBE the reason why fuel isn't in high demand is because we only have TWO FREAKING SYSTEMS in vanilla! And how would you explain the use of fuel in battle and HS but not in the system? And if you DID have it used in the system, why not just roll fuel into supplies and just have one resource?

AI Exploit: Take a single high shield efficiency ship and kite them until they need fuel. Then simply move in and destroy their tanker(s) and now they are sitting ducks
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ciago92

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2014, 09:03:51 PM »

Which would make sense, because engines consume fuel (duh), and if you run out, you lose power and your ship becomes slower and slower over like 10 seconds until it comes to a stop, then the engine dies.

this would help stop kiting, and encourages drifting, which wouldn't consume as much fuel, since the engine is idle. = more skill involved + more realistic.

This would also give tankers a useful role, refill fuel to ships around them as a ship system, because right now, tankers are pointless unless you want to sit in hyperspace for 30 years. :)

id imagine this would only need an extra tab in the CSV as well such as fuel consumed per 1000SU or something

whole idea started because I feel I don't have enough to think about in battles, and generally because i want some kind of realism in battles other than blowing stuff up, and because i feel fuel is completely useless right now and only serves as extra money until you have to travel somewhere which barely consumes anything to begin with, i figured it should be given the same kind of importance supplies have.

Thoughts?
Excuse my language but F*** NO! All I see are nothing but gamey and broken mechanics, extra (and most likely hidden) timers, and AI exploits!
How the hell is this supposed to be balanced for the main game? Or makes sense lore wise? Did you ever consider that maybe, just MAYBE the reason why fuel isn't in high demand is because we only have TWO FREAKING SYSTEMS in vanilla! And how would you explain the use of fuel in battle and HS but not in the system? And if you DID have it used in the system, why not just roll fuel into supplies and just have one resource?

AI Exploit: Take a single high shield efficiency ship and kite them until they need fuel. Then simply move in and destroy their tanker(s) and now they are sitting ducks
chill bro, take a look at the date this was all posted :-P
heck, just read the rest of the thread
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Gotcha!

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 04:58:05 AM »

As long as fuel is not used in systems, no thanks.  It is not more skill, just yet another timer and headache to deal with and/or possibly yet another weakness to exploit with the AI.

Amen to that. :)
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Megas

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Re: Fuel in battles.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 07:20:54 AM »

The first may have been posted on April Fool's, but it still could have been a serious feature request.
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