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Author Topic: On Trade Design  (Read 49200 times)

Alex

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On Trade Design
« on: March 02, 2014, 09:13:39 AM »

Blog post here.
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FloW

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 09:30:08 AM »

You liar, that's not cool.

That's pretty awesome. Turning trading into more than just "find most profitable route, trade until new, more profitable route is found, rinse, repeat" is great. Can't wait for the next post.
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Alex

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 09:34:00 AM »

You liar, that's not cool.

Yeah, absolutely not cool. That wasn't an intentional pun, in the other thread. Not my fault the speculation got so out of hand! Though I have to admit, it was fun to watch :)
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Thaago

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 09:55:22 AM »

Nice! My 2 cents: it absolutely makes sense for there to be a lack of profitable trade routes (race to the bottom, etc) if there is enough shipping in an area. If there's not enough shipping, then imbalances should pop up. Those could be made by an event (pirates preying on shipping, industrial accident...) or possibly by the player (kill all the competition, then run the routes yourself).

I'm very excited to see what you and David have been coming up with for systems and stories - I'm thinking the atmosphere of the game is going to start changing. :)
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Sundog

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 10:03:00 AM »

I approve. :)
A lot of trading games would benefit enormously from a trading system closer to what you've described than what they have.

Megas

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 10:15:34 AM »

Trading in many other games is simply "buy low, sell high" - very basic.  Hopefully this will not get too complicated to work with, or get in the way of combat.

In any case, trading is something to do when my units are too weak to fight stuff.  Once my units can fight anything, commerce is only good for getting shinies that cannot be won from combat or acquired any other way.
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Cycerin

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 10:25:53 AM »

Excellent. This will really liven up the Sector. I love the idea of being on the ball and looking for opportunities to make a profit, or looking for people trying to make a profit and making a profit off preying on them. Or even making a profit off escorting OTHER traders trying to make a profit... Profit.
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joe130794

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 10:39:26 AM »

how will the update affect our current saves? i saved up 4 million which i would hate to lose.
and is there any update on more ships and factions?
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FasterThanSleepyfish

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 10:49:40 AM »



Quote
Alex: January 19, 2014, 10:28:30 PM
"I'm going to have to be a bit economical with my reply -  :-X"
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MShadowy

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 11:02:18 AM »

Ah, awesome.  This is gonna be incredibly neat.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, this blog post seems to imply that planets may also be getting some vital statistics so they're more than just scenery, which is pretty cool.
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lStealtherl

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2014, 11:11:46 AM »

I assume there will be abit of credit nerf for killing other fleets?

EDIT: Nvm, forgot fleets would be scattered throughout other systems once implemented.
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Doom101

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 12:06:45 PM »

Heres a question, will there be multiple ways to handle an event that DON'T involve a monetary profit?

I know you mentioned that if a player has ill will towards a planet they could potentially blockade to stop all supplies coming in, but other than selling mass quantities of food to starving people can we just give them food? I know in a former blog post ( or somewhere) you had mentioned Morality and how that would affect how people see you. But then this might be saying too much of the future.
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HELMUT

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2014, 12:08:06 PM »

I didn't expected trade to be like that. This version of trade that Alex show us is actually seems more like a quest system than a trading system. Random quest appears, choose whether or not you want to do it, the quest involve basic "Get things, give them to dude, get money".
For some reasons i expected a more 4X mechanic. Player faction set an automated trading route to get resources, other factions can interact with the routes and influence your faction (pirate raid, Hegemony blockade...), you can choose to defend or attacks trades routes to influence the game.

I'm not saying it is bad by any mean, it will be probably very important for the implementation of the rest of the eventual missions mechanics. But to me it's not "real" trading.

But as Alex said, trading would be quickly boring. Some mods already feature a similar mechanic and while being a freighter captain can get you some safe money, it's not as interesting as blowing up stuffs. Maybe later on (or with mods) we'll be able to set AI trading routes that you will manage, not necessarily as a captain but more as a company director, Starsector Tycoon style.

Not sure if this will be the direction Alex want his game to go though. Starsector seems to be more of a SPAZ's like rather than a 4X or a RTS.

Anyway, i'm looking forward for this neat update.

Edit: BTW, what are your opinion of the cargo items? I can easily recognize resource minerals, weapons on the right and maybe foodstuffs for the middle green/yellow packages but what are the other ones?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 12:10:48 PM by HELMUT »
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CedricO

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2014, 12:11:56 PM »

Sounds absolutely amazing. But im still looking forward to having my own planet in the future. :P hopefully it will be difficult to "own" one, and even more difficult to maintain more then one. But thats just my personal hope for this game. That said, this whole post made me excited for this game once again. :)
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Alex

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Re: On Trade Design
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2014, 12:29:38 PM »

Nice! My 2 cents: it absolutely makes sense for there to be a lack of profitable trade routes (race to the bottom, etc) if there is enough shipping in an area. If there's not enough shipping, then imbalances should pop up. Those could be made by an event (pirates preying on shipping, industrial accident...) or possibly by the player (kill all the competition, then run the routes yourself).

Yep, we're on the same page here.

I'm very excited to see what you and David have been coming up with for systems and stories - I'm thinking the atmosphere of the game is going to start changing. :)

Just from seeing what David's come up with, it's definitely moving in that direction.


In any case, trading is something to do when my units are too weak to fight stuff.  Once my units can fight anything, commerce is only good for getting shinies that cannot be won from combat or acquired any other way.

That's one way to play it, sure. I could also see someone that prefers trade/industry/etc as a matter of playstyle.

Heres a question, will there be multiple ways to handle an event that DON'T involve a monetary profit?

I know you mentioned that if a player has ill will towards a planet they could potentially blockade to stop all supplies coming in, but other than selling mass quantities of food to starving people can we just give them food? I know in a former blog post ( or somewhere) you had mentioned Morality and how that would affect how people see you. But then this might be saying too much of the future.

Depends on the event. Naturally, events in the next release will be more trade-focused, but the system should be flexible enough to handle much more than that.

I didn't expected trade to be like that. This version of trade that Alex show us is actually seems more like a quest system than a trading system. Random quest appears, choose whether or not you want to do it, the quest involve basic "Get things, give them to dude, get money".

Sort of, though I hate calling it a "quest". I think the resemblance is mostly superficial. I mean, you can boil anything down to that, right? Including current combat.

The difference, for me, is that a quest is something that requires active participation from the player and has a scripted way for how it's supposed to go. An event will resolve itself without player interference, and an ideal event has multiple ways for the player to take advantage of a specific opportunity.

That said, you probably *could* get along by taking advantage of these in the most basic/obvious way. Need to see just how it actually plays out!

For some reasons i expected a more 4X mechanic. Player faction set an automated trading route to get resources, other factions can interact with the routes and influence your faction (pirate raid, Hegemony blockade...), you can choose to defend or attacks trades routes to influence the game.

I'm not saying it is bad by any mean, it will be probably very important for the implementation of the rest of the eventual missions mechanics. But to me it's not "real" trading.

But as Alex said, trading would be quickly boring. Some mods already feature a similar mechanic and while being a freighter captain can get you some safe money, it's not as interesting as blowing up stuffs. Maybe later on (or with mods) we'll be able to set AI trading routes that you will manage, not necessarily as a captain but more as a company director, Starsector Tycoon style.

Not sure if this will be the direction Alex want his game to go though. Starsector seems to be more of a SPAZ's like rather than a 4X or a RTS.

I think what you're talking about here falls more under "outposts and industry" rather than the scope trade for the next update. For example, an automated way to make a profit from a "race to the bottom" trade route could work just fine, as long as it doesn't require direct participation from the player. I am keeping an eye on how a player-controlled outpost would fit into the economy, though it's far too early to actually talk about that in any detail.

In short, what you're talking about 1) sounds good and 2) is precisely the sort of stuff that, I think, can be built on top of this foundation. Whether that's exactly how it ends up, well... need to get this portion done first, and then take a good look at everything.


I approve. :)
A lot of trading games would benefit enormously from a trading system closer to what you've described than what they have.
Sounds absolutely amazing. But im still looking forward to having my own planet in the future. :P hopefully it will be difficult to "own" one, and even more difficult to maintain more then one. But thats just my personal hope for this game. That said, this whole post made me excited for this game once again. :)

Thanks, guys :)
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