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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.8a] Starsector+ 3.7.0  (Read 1174330 times)

Sabaton

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.8.2b (Extra random!)
« Reply #240 on: August 20, 2014, 03:17:01 AM »

1. The console storage.
2. Thanks!
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Kneight

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.8.2b (Extra random!)
« Reply #241 on: August 20, 2014, 01:00:16 PM »

And of course the storage is empty despite saying it added 72 ships.
Ships don't appear in the "Storage" Cargo list (It's default tab when you open Console's Storage), but if you don't close it and go to "Fleet", you can see 2 tabs that say "Give" and "Take".
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.8.2b (Extra random!)
« Reply #242 on: August 20, 2014, 11:34:06 PM »

1. The console storage.
2. Thanks!
Also, are you running the latest version of the Commands? I know that one version had trouble adding ships with built in weapons so that might be your problem
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #243 on: August 22, 2014, 05:24:57 AM »

Shadowyards Heavy Industries is now integrated!

Oh, and there's a new ship and mission.




Download Starsector+ 1.9
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 1.9)
(Requires ShaderLib Alpha v1.66)

Download Interstellar Imperium 1.3.1
Download Blackrock Driveyards 0.6.5 (Not compatible with campaign yet! Replace the jar with this for a temporary patch.)
Download Exigency Incorporated 0.59b (Not compatible with campaign yet!)
Download Shadowyards Heavy Industries v0.4.7b Dev Version (New!)
Download Citadel 0.6.4 (Not compatible with campaign yet! Replace the jar with this for a temporary patch.)


Excelsior-class Corvette [4 Logistics]

Hot-rodding through space.

The game needed a bleeding-edge ship, just as likely to wreck an enemy fleet as it is to spontaneously explode from its own awesomeness.  Meet the Excelsior, a madhouse where overloading is likely to cause you to combust, phase cloak heals you, venting does damage to enemies, and you want your flux to be as high as possible.  This ship eats projectiles for breakfast and has a pretty damn powerful main cannon, should you have the flux to really make it sing.  Avoid putting vents on this thing unless you want to do most of your damage via venting.  Sprite by HELMUT.


Version 1.9
  • Shadowyards Heavy Industries integrated
  • More Vent AI improvements
  • Cargo and burn speeds adjusted to match vanilla levels
  • Added Excelsior-class Corvette
  • Added "Duel of the Century" mission
  • Improved rank names (gender-sensitive, etc.)
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #244 on: August 22, 2014, 07:13:11 AM »

Was that last ship that dash bashed you a Templar ship?
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #245 on: August 22, 2014, 08:59:53 AM »

Heh, the description of that new ship reminds me of a hound variant I keep wanting to build: the Tindalos.  Phasing cloak, teleporter, mjolnir cannon, starts losing CR the instant it gets into a fight... but doesn't lose CR while phased out.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Cycerin

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #246 on: August 22, 2014, 10:01:00 AM »

Was that last ship that dash bashed you a Templar ship?

Yep, the Jesuit.

The Excelsior is extremely cool, because flux is a resource for that ship. It's got a ridiculous skill floor and skill ceiling and def. feels really rewarding to pilot when you get it right. As the video demonstrates, that mission is also inhumanly hard...

Right now I only made the cannon sfx for it, but I'll get some more stuff in there later.
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Darloth

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #247 on: August 27, 2014, 01:17:24 PM »

I just wanted to mention that I really like what you've done with skills in this mod.

I have often thought about rebalancing them, but you've pretty much done everything I thought about and more - they almost all make better sense with what we have now, and I commend you on that - so much so, in fact, that I often find myself wanting them in other mods :)

Having levels with no aptitude point grant 3 skills is wonderful, it really makes those levels feel worthwhile in the same way rather than a poor substitute.

The only criticism I have is that I don't understand the design intent behind why the speed boosts are split up as they are.  Clearly vanilla Navigation is almost required to thrive at the moment, and I certainly support it being split out (I love that frigate pack and fighter boosts are in Leadership, for example) but there are a couple of skills that boost frigates and cruisers but not destroyers, and those confuse me a bit.  If it were split along small / large lines, that makes sense.

Was this done for balance overall, because cruisers are just overall slower, and these skills are intended to bring them up to the level of a destroyer fleet but no further?  If so, why the boost to frigates?

I've had a look at the .skill files, but they refer to effects presumably buried in the .jar, so I can't make any guesses as to the design intent other than what I can see ingame. That being said, being able to actually SEE the effects in game (at various levels) is nice.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #248 on: August 27, 2014, 01:38:30 PM »

All of the speed boost perks, in total, add up to the original Navigation 10 bonus.  They're split up like that because I had to do some weird things to get them to add up properly.  I might swap them around a little, but there's not a lot I can do to make it cleaner.
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Darloth

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #249 on: August 28, 2014, 02:16:01 PM »

I understand that, but it's the particular splits you've chosen that seem a little weird, and really mean to destroyers - with one exception, all their boost skills are at 10, and split over THREE DIFFERENT TREES.

It would be pretty easy to make a build with these that gave you cruisers going faster than destroyers, and I don't think that sounds right.

Here's a list of them all now I have the game open:
Combat:Helmsmanship(5) - Maximum Power giving +0/0/0/1/0.
Combat:Helmsmanship(10) - Dynamic Stabilization giving +0/0/1/0/1.

Leadership:Fleet Logistics(5) - Efficient Fueling giving +1/1/1/0/0 (the only rank 5 destroyer boost.)
Leadership:Fleet Logistics(10) - Optimized Navigation giving +1/1/0/1/0.
Leadership:Small Unit Tactics(10) - Small Unit Logistics giving +1/1/0/0/0.

Tech:Computer Systems(5) - Travel Route Algorithms giving +1/1/0/1/0.
Tech:Mechanical Engineering(10) - Burn Drive Mastery giving +0/0/1/0/1.
Tech:Applied Physics(5) - Burn Drive Miniaturization giving +1/1/0/0/0.

So, if we analyze these a bit, we find these results:
Destroyers can be boosted a maximum of +3 burn, but it requires 25 aptitude points and 30!! skillpoints.
Cruisers can be boosted by a maximum of +3 burn, but it only requires 20 aptitude points and 20 skillpoints
Capships get a +2 boost, and require 20 aptitude points and 20 skillpoints to get it.
Fighters/frigates are still linked, and get a total of +5, which you must pay only 15 aptitude but 30 skillpoints for. That said, you can get +4 for 10 and 20, see below.

Additionally, here's the breakdown of boosts available by skill tree:
Combat: +0/0/1/1/1
Leadership: +3/3/1/1/0
Tech:  +2/2/1/1/1

This seems to indicate Tech being an all-round boost, leadership focussed on small ships primarily but a dip into Fleet logistics for +1 to everything, and Combat intended mostly just for big stuff.

May I suggest increasing these specializations while decreasing the total breadth of aptitudes and depth of skillpoints required to max a given class that a player is interested in?

I think the tree I like best in this setup is Leadership - keep that one mostly the same, though does Small Unit Logistics really deserve to be at 10? I think at 5 would be more fun without making it a big problem - frigate wolfpacks are already pretty much faster than anything else, and dropping the investment needed to get +2 frigates to 5 aptitude and 10 skillpoints is still way more than vanilla, without actually changing the type of fleet these ships can catch.

Destroyers are too hard to boost right now, and they're the natural step up from frigates - but this skill mod makes them very hard to use as you can't catch anything small enough to kill, and can't run from anything big enough to kill you.

First, swap some of the points around - give the destroyer boosts at Helmsmanship 5 and Applied Physics 5 - drop the destroyer boost at Mechanical Engineering 10.

Then, there are some choices - If you absolutely don't want a single point over vanilla, then I think you should move the destroyer bonus point out of Combat:Helmsmanship and into Tech somewhere - perhaps Mechanical Engineering 5, or maybe Computer Systems 5 (though this is then a very strong level and it's already giving more ordnance points and hull mods so everyone -already- loved this skill.)

Personally, I would say that your skill mod is already far enough away from vanilla that you don't strictly need to keep to the exact same set of bonuses. Destroyers could have +4 total without breaking the game, and if they continued to be spread over all three skill trees, it would be pretty unlikely that any but the most determined players would get it, and if they did, so what? They've got all three skills to max, let them have their +4 destroyers, eh?  This would let you make destroyer boosts be easier to get everywhere - still push it down to Tech 5, but also have it at Combat 5 and Leadership 5 as well, with a further destroyer boost at Tech 10, perhaps exactly where it is now.  I think Applied Physics 5 would be the best spot in my opinion, and this is the option I like the most.

It's still a bit weird that cruisers would get boosted before destroyers in the Tech skill, so if you really wanted to emphasise the speed differences you could swap the destroyer/cruiser boosts in Computer Systems and Mechanical Engineering, for +1/1/1/0/0 at 5 and +0/0/0/1/1 respectively.

This would mean destroyers would get a total of +4, but need 15 aptitude points and 20 skillpoints to get there - wheras fighters/frigates are still easier as they only need 10 aptitude and 20 skillpoints to get to +4.

Okay, end wall of text, what do you think?  If I still feel this strongly about it tomorrow I'll try rewriting the scripts and try it out for a bit and report back - thanks for including the .java files in the .jar!

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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #250 on: August 28, 2014, 03:04:20 PM »

I had noticed that Small Unit Logistics was too high, and had moved its boost down to 5 in my dev build, recently.  Great minds think alike.

Currently, (before reading your post) it looks like this:
Combat: Helmsmanship 5 gives +1/1/0/0/0, Helmsmanship 10 gives +0/0/0/1/1 (total of +1/1/0/1/1 for 10 aptitude and 10 skill points)
Leadership: Fleet Logistics 5 gives +1/1/1/0/0, Fleet Logistics 10 gives +1/1/1/0/0, Small Unit Tactics 5 gives +1/1/0/0/0 (total of +3/3/2/0/0 for 10 aptitude and 20 skill points)
Technology: Applied Physics 5 gives +1/1/0/0/0, Computer Systems 5 gives +0/0/1/1/0, Mechanical Engineering 10 gives +0/0/0/1/1 (total of +1/1/1/2/1 for 10 aptitude and 20 skill points)

This seems to avert your worries, since you can get:
Fighters/Frigates at +1 burn speed with 5 aptitude and 5 skill points (leadership 5), +2 with 5 aptitude and 10 skill points (leadership 5), +3 with 10 aptitude and 15 skill points (combat 5 and leadership 5, leadership 5 and technology 5, or leadership 10), +4 with 15 aptitude and 20 skill points (combat 5, leadership 5, and technology 5; combat 5 and leadership 10; or leadership 10 and technology 5), or +5 with 20 aptitude and 25 skill points (combat 5, leadership 10, and technology 5)
Destroyers at +1 burn speed with 5 aptitude and 5 skill points (leadership 5 or technology 5), +2 with 10 aptitude and 10 skill points (leadership 5 and technology 5), or +3 with 15 aptitude and 15 skill points (leadership 10 and technology 5)
Cruisers at +1 burn speed with 5 aptitude and 5 skill points (technology 5), +2 with 10 aptitude and 15 skill points (technology 10), or +3 with 20 aptitude and 25 skill points (combat 10 and technology 10)
Capital Ships at +1 burn speed with 10 aptitude and 10 skill points (combat 10 or technology 10) or +2 with 20 aptitude and 20 skill points (combat 10 and technology 10)

Basically, each size up gets progressively more difficult to raise up.  Fighters/Frigates get +1 burn speed per 3.7 aptitude and 5 skill points.  Destroyers get +1 burn speed per 5 aptitude and 5 skill points.  Cruisers get +1 burn speed per 6.1 aptitude and 7.9 skill points.  Capital Ships get +1 burn speed per 10 aptitude and 10 skill points.

Fun fact: in vanilla Starsector, Fighters/Frigates get +1 burn speed per 1.7 aptitude and 1.7 skill points, destroyers get +1 burn speed per 3.1 aptitude and 3.1 skill points, cruisers get +1 burn speed per 3.6 aptitude and 3.6 skill points, and capital ships get +1 burn speed per 5 aptitude and 5 skill points.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 03:10:02 PM by Dark.Revenant »
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Darloth

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.9 (S.H.I.)
« Reply #251 on: August 28, 2014, 03:22:43 PM »

That sounds much better! Awesome! :)

(I think I'd still give destroyers another point or two somewhere, but then it wouldn't match vanilla - and I've decided that I just think destroyers are too slow.)
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Sabaton

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.8.2b (Extra random!)
« Reply #252 on: August 30, 2014, 09:59:35 AM »

1. The console storage.
2. Thanks!
Also, are you running the latest version of the Commands? I know that one version had trouble adding ships with built in weapons so that might be your problem

 No, I make sure I always have the latest versions before bugging people on the forums with issues.
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.10 (Mayorate + Templars)
« Reply #253 on: August 30, 2014, 11:33:53 PM »

The Mayorate and The Knights Templar are now integrated.  You might have to wait a couple days for kazi's update before you can actually use The Mayorate, though.




Version 1.10
  • The Mayorate integrated
  • The Knights Templar integrated
  • Locomotive-class Heavy Tug added
  • Surface maps added to all ships and weapons
  • Kashef Sensor Suite added to Gunnery Implants 5
  • Additional Vent AI changes, including faction-specific tweaks
  • Version Checker support added
  • Rearranged fleet speed skill perks
  • Minor improvements here and there
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TheKillerWolf

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Re: [0.6.2a] Starsector+ Vanilla Enhancement Mod 1.10 (Mayorate + Templars)
« Reply #254 on: August 31, 2014, 10:17:59 AM »

i looked and didnt see it anywhere but the locomotive seems broke. its not increasing my fleets burn speed at all.


EDIT: ok its working now but i had to get into a combat before the burn would kick in
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 10:23:19 AM by TheKillerWolf »
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