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Author Topic: So, 3 years later...  (Read 9930 times)

ValkyriaL

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2013, 07:49:37 AM »

It never does, if you want to complete a hard game, your gonna have to work for it. ;)
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Flare

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2013, 07:53:57 AM »

I think the beginning might warrant a bit more leeway due to the fact that it more or less serves as the tutorial.
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The battle station is not completely operational, shall we say.

"Now witness the firepower of this thoroughly buggy and unoperational batt... Oh, hell, you know what? Just ignore the battle station, okay?"

Cycerin

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2013, 07:56:21 AM »

Yeah, the new player experience is extremely rough at the moment.
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Cosmitz

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2013, 08:57:17 AM »

It's not so much a 'new player experience' as much as a 'new player beatdown'.  ;D
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Annex

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2013, 10:51:14 AM »

Yeah I managed to get a bunch after I figured out how the AI behaves which becomes very predictable (they fly away when im pointing at them, fly at me when im pointing away from them etc) and got to level 2 (woot!). However between dealing with momentum, trying to fine tune my aiming, and being constantly crippled by flux overload, playing this game is far more painful than it needs to be. Always has been. It sounds terrific, looks great, but the controls and style just dont work well. I keep comparing this to SPAZ which is very similar combat wise and what a difference. Anyhow ill quit nagging you guys and ill go show myself the door

Sounds like you are expecting to instantly master a very complicated game. That doesn't usually work out.

No, not at all. No one should ever expect to instantly be a master at anything. I do however expect a game to be a) easy to learn at the start and b) be fun at the start. Once those two are accomplished you can then devote enough time to master the game and hopefully continue to have fun as the difficulty and scope ramp up. The controls should be obvious and intuitive, the information on the screen should be clear and concise. What is happening on the screen should clearly make sense. There should be no confusion. If there is, I and any other newcommer will be put off and likely not want to invest more time and effort if there are other alternatives.

So if I dont understand why 30 seconds into starting the game im being attacked by a fleet of pirate ships or if I dont understand why my ship continues to turn after I release A/D keys (momentum) and thus causing me to constantly miss my target (something the AI doesnt suffer from), then I get frustrated, and my initial experience is tarnished. So when after an hour or two of frustration im asked by friends "hey, what do you think of that new game you just installed?" I have no choice but to be honest and say "well, I get *** at the start by fleets of pirate ships and I cant even hit them reliably, something is either very wrong or quite incomplete" and there go some lost sales. And I didnt just write a hypothetical situation, that was last night. I made it to level 5 and got my fleet going but I didnt get there with a smile on my face.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:52:48 AM by Annex »
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dshaffer

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 11:00:03 AM »

The Game's in Alpha. Which means a lot of the things you'd expect for a new player, like an 'easy mode' tutorial dont really exist yet. We're essentially just testing the combat engine with some incorporation of strategy elements.

People really need to stop treating this like it's an actually released game, and temper their expectations accordingly.
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Cycerin

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 11:28:04 AM »

Annex, I understand your disappointment and frustration, but also don't really think you are being objective.  :) You compare it to SPAZ, which is a finished, polished game that has a cohesive and well-designed learning curve. Starsector doesn't even HAVE a defined learning curve yet. The only thing you can do to learn, is read the blogposts on the site to understand the systems that are in place in the campaign, read the forums for gameplay tips, and play missions until you are good enough at combat to win against the AI in a fair fight. This is because Starsector is currently in ALPHA.

If you expect to be neatly guided through a game that isn't even close to finished yet, well... my main beef with your arguments is that your complaints with the game stem from confusion (your arguments as to why piloting is bad in Starsector are, as far as I can tell, anecdotal and based on a lack of understanding of how to pilot using the mouse, the piloting in this game is probably the best I've ever seen in a 2d space game), so the rest is just a matter of not wanting to do the hard work it is to get on top of all the mechanics. And I really don't fault you for that, but that is part of the experience of playing an alpha game. Alex seems to be aware that the skill floor of the game is way too high at the moment, though.

You are marking yourself as an enthusiast the moment you chip in for a project like this. "Eternal betas" are in vogue recently, but the difference between Starsector and something like Star Citizen is that it doesn't really have any ponzi-scheme type "kickstarter bonuses" to keep the cash flowing. You pay 10 bux, Alex gets valuable feedback and you get to screw around with an unfinished game. That's the deal.

Also, arguably, SPAZ is a much more "rounded" game than Starsector. The skill floor is much lower, and the skill ceiling is a LOT lower. Thus, Starsector should appeal more to someone who enjoys a feeling of mastery and does not mind initial confusion or disorientation. For the record, if all you want to do is to blow up spaceships, you can still do it in the missions. Doing that also has a nifty side bonus of teaching you how the game's combat actually works. The campaign more or less consists of "bigger fish eats smaller fish" gameplay, which means that it's harder the smaller you are. This is an inverted difficulty curve, which is a major problem for the current game.

Enthusiasts like myself don't exist "in spite of the fact that Starsector is a bad game". We exist because this is an amazing game that rewards the effort spent to understand it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 11:41:53 AM by Cycerin »
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Bjørn_in_the_Sector

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 11:44:03 AM »

Well said.
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Cosmitz

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2013, 04:17:12 PM »

As a seasoned player, i too also have difficulty starting up. But straight out of my ship, after one lucky battle or two hard-won ones i can generally manage from that point onward to have no problems raising my fleet to whatever i want to play. Getting that initial push is hard, indeed and something that's coming up a lot more nowadays.
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xenoargh

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 08:49:22 PM »

@Annex:

If you want SPAZ-style steering, which you will probably find a little easier, you can turn that on in the data\config\settings.json file (open with Notepad).  Change this line:

Code
"autoturnMode":false,

To:

Code
"autoturnMode":true,

...and voila, now the ship turns to the mouse cursor, UNLESS you hold down Shift.  Which is a lot more intuitive for most people, but for whatever reasons, it's not a toggle-able game option at this time.

Anyhow, in terms of "how to play"... get a Lasher, then carefully pick out an intercept an enemy fleet with just one Buffalo Mk. 2.  Kill it, take all the loot, sell it, get a Hound to serve as storage space (and combat help if you're desperate) and move on.  The key thing here, given how the current game works, is that that is actually the easiest early encounter.  If you want to practice for it, use the simulator and get comfy.

Don't worry, this game's not too hard once you get past that basic point :)
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Annex

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2013, 06:20:17 PM »

@Annex:

If you want SPAZ-style steering, which you will probably find a little easier, you can turn that on in the data\config\settings.json file (open with Notepad).  Change this line:

Code
"autoturnMode":false,

To:

Code
"autoturnMode":true,

...and voila, now the ship turns to the mouse cursor, UNLESS you hold down Shift.  Which is a lot more intuitive for most people, but for whatever reasons, it's not a toggle-able game option at this time.

Anyhow, in terms of "how to play"... get a Lasher, then carefully pick out an intercept an enemy fleet with just one Buffalo Mk. 2.  Kill it, take all the loot, sell it, get a Hound to serve as storage space (and combat help if you're desperate) and move on.  The key thing here, given how the current game works, is that that is actually the easiest early encounter.  If you want to practice for it, use the simulator and get comfy.

Don't worry, this game's not too hard once you get past that basic point :)

That trick works wonders. What also works wonders is that, apparently any weapon group you have selected thats set on auto fire wont auto fire because its selected. So I make a third group, with one tiny weapon on it, and keep that selected. The main group along with the point defense groups are set to auto. That way I just focus on flying and shield/flux/fleet management. Much much better
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ciago92

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2013, 10:55:51 PM »

^ you can actually select a group with no weapons in order to let everything autofire
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Annex

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Re: So, 3 years later...
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2013, 12:50:30 PM »

^ you can actually select a group with no weapons in order to let everything autofire

Eh? Really? Well then, nice.....
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