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Author Topic: [0.96a-RC10] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.54), Nexerelin Compatible  (Read 256547 times)

Sabaton

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 ,try them,

 Sadly I cant try *** as Im away with college, and when I do get home I dont have the time for a lengthy campaign.

 But I will, if only for that space fearing gummy bear.

 And yes, SS+ compatibility is a must. I imagine starting as one of these guys and going after TT.

 Also, what about those 2 saucer shaped frigates, they look kinda odd compared to the style of the other ships.

 Lastly, what future plans do you have for this mod?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 12:19:27 PM by Sabaton »
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Zudgemud

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,try them,

 Sadly I cant try *** as Im away with college, and when I do get home I dont have the time for a lengthy campaign.

 But I will, if only for that space fearing gummy bear.

 And yes, SS+ compatibility is a must. I imagine starting as one of these guys and going after TT.

 Also, what about those 2 saucer shaped frigates, they look kinda odd compared to the style of the other ships.

 Lastly, what future plans do you have for this mod?

The mod is SS+ compatible, updated the OP to reflect that.

As for the saucer ships they are supposed to look and act strange, I think the sprites look a bit shabby though, so I will most likely touch them up in the future.

Other future plans is just to keep polishing the stuff that is currently in the mod and probably add some midsize freighter and carrier.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2015, 07:29:22 AM »

The file extension for graphics/pn/weapons/pndsilaser/v1/pn_dsi_turretbase59.png is in all caps (unlike all the other files in that directory), causing a crash on Linux due to case sensitivity.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2015, 10:33:49 AM »

I played a bit a P9 campaign in Nexerelin. While the enhanced armor and hull make them much comfortable to play with (no asteroid kill anymore), their stats are still waaaaay too extreme, uncomfortably so.

But first, here's the little issues i encountered.

The Samaa's family have strange stats. 2500 flux capacity for the EBM (as much as a tempest) and only 100 for the DSI!

P9 fleets also share the same colors as Shadowyard on the map.

P9 cores's glow still appears in the weapons group, not that much of a problem though.

No faction description on the diplomatic menu.

The turrets wings still refuse to teleport.

Could have missed some other stuffs but that's all i noted. Now for the balance.

So while P9 now can more or less survive a few LAGs shots with their enhanced armor. Most of their stats are still all over the place.

I was very surprised in my starting Sike when i got overloaded by a single autocannon shot. How? The default weapons for the Sike caused so much flux that i was constantly on the edge of overloading. A single HVD shot was an absolute death sentence in this case, as it condemned my Sike to be overloaded for more than 10 seconds. The solution would have been to constantly vent my flux, the problem is that i was defenseless for a few seconds, not a wise idea with P9's paper armor.

P9's weapons are also a problem. Most of them are outrageously expensive (nearly the same OPs cost as Templar guns) and feel very underwhelming. The medium SKV cannon for example, its direct competitor is the Pulse laser. The SKV cost 10 more OPs and 167 more flux/sec, also at 39 damage per shot, it struggle really hard to pierce heavy armor. Its advantages are its much bigger range and moderate EMP damage. The 950 range is definitely its selling point, it works very well at taking down shields relatively quickly. But at 20 OPs? Especially on a flux stressed P9 ship? Not for me.

So yeah, it's mostly all about stats now. Fast flux venting is Neutrino and Blackrock's thing, so you should try to adjust your stats on them. Not only flux stats but also OPs, speed... Everything. Same thing for weapons.

It's definitely better than the last version but still not quite there.

BTW i like the new ships sprites.
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Zudgemud

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2015, 01:17:00 PM »

Thanks for the feedback! I'll reply to it piecemeal. :)


The Samaa's family have strange stats. 2500 flux capacity for the EBM (as much as a tempest) and only 100 for the DSI!

All P9 ships currently require lots of extra flux capacitors, the starting amount just dictates how much you can reach in the end.


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P9 fleets also share the same colors as Shadowyard on the map.

Woops, fixed!


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P9 cores's glow still appears in the weapons group, not that much of a problem though.
I know, but I just havent cared enough to fix it, will look at it.


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No faction description on the diplomatic menu.
I get an error when adding these things to the game so I left it out for this patch. But it is on my list of things to add.


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The turrets wings still refuse to teleport.

I have no idea how to make this work decently, as it is now it does not really matter how often I set the cooldown etc, they do not jump into battle as a unit. However, they do use the teleport to travel to waypoints without no problem, but as soon as you set them to attack a target they dont use the teleport to travel to the hostile ship.


Quote
I was very surprised in my starting Sike when i got overloaded by a single autocannon shot. How? The default weapons for the Sike caused so much flux that i was constantly on the edge of overloading. A single HVD shot was an absolute death sentence in this case, as it condemned my Sike to be overloaded for more than 10 seconds. The solution would have been to constantly vent my flux, the problem is that i was defenseless for a few seconds, not a wise idea with P9's paper armor.
Yes, always max flux vents and never ever overload in P9 ships, I can tweak the weapon flux drain too though.


Quote
P9's weapons are also a problem. Most of them are outrageously expensive (nearly the same OPs cost as Templar guns) and feel very underwhelming. The medium SKV cannon for example, its direct competitor is the Pulse laser. The SKV cost 10 more OPs and 167 more flux/sec, also at 39 damage per shot, it struggle really hard to pierce heavy armor. Its advantages are its much bigger range and moderate EMP damage. The 950 range is definitely its selling point, it works very well at taking down shields relatively quickly. But at 20 OPs? Especially on a flux stressed P9 ship? Not for me.

I intentionally made all P9 weapons high in OP and flux cost and bad against armor, I could up the damage a bit to compensate but I didnt intend the faction guns to be "top of the line" in game. The general feature for the faction's DPS is supposed to be "constant pressure" with some shield stripping weapons and gimmick guns.


Quote
So yeah, it's mostly all about stats now. Fast flux venting is Neutrino and Blackrock's thing, so you should try to adjust your stats on them. Not only flux stats but also OPs, speed... Everything. Same thing for weapons.

I was previously working on having the flux stats be normal but with a reduction in flux cost built in, but then I heard that it was already the a feature in templar ships so I didnt actually try to do anything with it to avoid taking their gimmick. Another idea was that I would simply nerf the flux venting and give the faction a passive hard flux reduction, but that would never be correctly handled by the AI and I sure cant reprogram the AI.

So, if anyone have an idea of how to have the equivalence of really high flux stats without superfast venting feel free to tell me!


Quote
BTW i like the new ships sprites.

Thanks!
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NightfallGemini

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2015, 05:39:28 PM »

Dodging everything in a Sike and then oneshotting things with triple Phase Lances is choice. Just came to say that.
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Hellya

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2015, 03:25:19 PM »

I have been trying to play this with Nex and SS+ (compatible factions included). It does not appear to be on the map nor is it a start faction. The ships are all in codex though.

Maybe a bug?
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Hellya

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2015, 03:43:23 PM »

It is Nex that does not work with this.... Yet I hope.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2015, 03:49:06 PM »

Works fine for me. Try to re-download it, maybe you got an old version.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2015, 12:46:29 AM »

Is it intentional that the Korlo-SKT phase cruiser has 83% of a Tempest's speed and 44% more turn rate (!!) ?
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Zudgemud

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2015, 06:58:11 AM »

Is it intentional that the Korlo-SKT phase cruiser has 83% of a Tempest's speed and 44% more turn rate (!!) ?

In short, yes. It is still kinda balanced since it is huge, has terrible phase time, terrible tanking and a really bad layout for point defences. I turned down all its stats and gave it an agility increasing phase system in my current unreleased version of the mod. It plays about the same though.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2015, 09:13:37 PM »

Ah, okay.

A few other balance/design thoughts from a recent Nexerelin playthrough (SS+ included, fighting almost exclusively against Templars 0.94b):
Spoiler
  • I find the "always, ALWAYS max caps and installed Stabilized Shields" thing to be pretty railroady in terms of ship design. May as well make the hullmod built in like Mayorate did; not sure what to do about the flux capacity thing but maybe tone down the extreme high dissipation/low capacity thing.
  • Eyeballing the ship stats, some of the logistics costs seem off in general. Nothing I can see in the Codex justifies Spore Mk III having a recovery cost of 108, and P9 Repair Rig costs 12 logistics points (more than most cruisers)... why would I ever bring one?
  • Samaa EBM is awesome to the point of being silly overpowered, as long as you're careful not to get overloaded. Burn 3, 3k base dissipation, 390 base OP (compare to Onslaught's 335 and Paragon's 350) and a lot of mounts with long-ranged, high-DPS P9 weapons mean this thing tears apart just about anything it can reach. If your flux runs too high, just vent in the face of the enemy, it takes only about 2 seconds tops and your armor can easily hold up that long. Fortress Shield lets it handle even potential flux spikes like Clarent swarms or Arondight quite easily. With moderately high skills, this thing eats two Paladins for breakfast. Only needs 14 logistics and 190 crew too.
  • T3 Support Cannon is kind of odd. Is it intended to be a dedicated fighter/missile suppression weapon that also works as a knife weapon against capitals? 40 OP (and 1667 flux/s) seems kind of a steep price to pay for that functionality, and it spreads far too much for anything else.
  • Is the Raala Rayblaster supposed to do something fancy that's not listed on the stats? It seems awfully weak for its size and OP cost (it has the DPS and range of a Pulse Laser while costing 2.5 times more, and all it has going for it is high per-shot HE damage).
[close]

PS: I like the laser GFX.
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Zudgemud

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Re: [0.65.2a] The P9 Colony Group - Faction mod (v0.4), SS+ Compatible
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2015, 04:27:02 AM »

Thanks for all the comments! :)

A few other balance/design thoughts from a recent Nexerelin playthrough (SS+ included, fighting almost exclusively against Templars 0.94b):
  • I find the "always, ALWAYS max caps and installed Stabilized Shields" thing to be pretty railroady in terms of ship design. May as well make the hullmod built in like Mayorate did; not sure what to do about the flux capacity thing but maybe tone down the extreme high dissipation/low capacity thing.
While I personally like to have the option of having/not having stabilized shields, I would love to reduce the reliance on flux capacitors and instead just put a hard cap. I have been thinking of making some hullmod that decrease the effect of flux capacitors but I just haven't gotten around to tinkering with it.

Quote
  • Eyeballing the ship stats, some of the logistics costs seem off in general. Nothing I can see in the Codex justifies Spore Mk III having a recovery cost of 108, and P9 Repair Rig costs 12 logistics points (more than most cruisers)... why would I ever bring one?
Yep, this is an error, for the MkIII I had no idea how the supply usage worked out for fighters so it's stats was all messed up, it was supposed to be around the cost of a light cruiser. For the repair rig it was supposed to have a bit more than the vanilla repair rig, I assume I messed up my copying and pasting here too. I have fixed these things in my current unreleased version.

Quote
  • Samaa EBM is awesome to the point of being silly overpowered, as long as you're careful not to get overloaded. Burn 3, 3k base dissipation, 390 base OP (compare to Onslaught's 335 and Paragon's 350) and a lot of mounts with long-ranged, high-DPS P9 weapons mean this thing tears apart just about anything it can reach. If your flux runs too high, just vent in the face of the enemy, it takes only about 2 seconds tops and your armor can easily hold up that long. Fortress Shield lets it handle even potential flux spikes like Clarent swarms or Arondight quite easily. With moderately high skills, this thing eats two Paladins for breakfast. Only needs 14 logistics and 190 crew too.
I actually never played it against Templar only (I did ravage them AS Templar though, but you know, Templar). I personally thought it was, at least combat wise not as OP with being a slow turd with no agility, an unshielded rear engine and a rear PD that cant hit ships, making it very vulnerable for flanking. But as Templar fleets are usually very small it is probably much easier to focus all that firepower and tanking capacity. Will see if I can bash it down a bit, maybe give it the high maintenance hullmod and some other stats. I'll adjust the logistics cost so that it is more on par with the other supercapitals though.

Quote
  • T3 Support Cannon is kind of odd. Is it intended to be a dedicated fighter/missile suppression weapon that also works as a knife weapon against
    capitals? 40 OP (and 1667 flux/s) seems kind of a steep price to pay for that functionality, and it spreads far too much for anything else.
I designed it to be "a dedicated fighter/missile suppression weapon" and intentionally terrible against most other things, I might tune it down a bit though, as it's flux requirement makes it essentially unusable for all non P9 ships. Currently I'm doing a general overveiw of the OP/OP cost of all the different weapons/hulls, as some are simply too crap for their OP cost.

Quote
  • Is the Raala Rayblaster supposed to do something fancy that's not listed on the stats? It seems awfully weak for its size and OP cost (it has the DPS and range of a Pulse Laser while costing 2.5 times more, and all it has going for it is high per-shot HE damage).
It is not the best of weapons no, but it is a good way to do explosive damage for a faction that is generally starved on reliable armor penetration. I have been thinking of upping it's damage against shields or simply buff the damage, but so far I'm decently happy with the functionality.

In my unreleased version I added a hullmod to all P9 ships that make venting much worse (just 20% better than dropping shield/holding fire), gives the ships a passive flux drain (15%) and makes them unable to mount extended shields, forcing all ships except PD platforms and the Mite to have an unshielded rear segment. So far it seems to work fine with the AI, and no ship seems to be more OP than vanilla ships in the hands of the player, the only real exception being the Samaa-EBM with it's good shield coverage and fortress shield, I might change that subsysten.
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Zudgemud

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Update!

Added a combat hauler, the Louse:

A very sturdy hauler, it can act as a damage sponge for weaker dps focused ships.


Also added a small strike weapon with regenerating ammo, the Jet launcher:

Suprisingly not bad!


And I changed the Sike-M to actually be a usable ship with 3 built in rocket pods and 3 small missile turret points.



Changelog:
Added a hullmod for all P9 ships, now they have a 15% passive flux dissipation, but are unable to mount expanded shields and have a much worse vent rate, venting is now only slightly better than holding fire and dropping shields. Ships have also been rebalanced according to this so that the vast majority of ships are unable to get a 360 degree shield coverage.
Added engines to the Sike ships, now they are even more vulnerable to fire when shields are down.
Added four missile mounts for the SL-t1p, now it is even more like a PD enforcer!
Nerfed speed and handling for several ships.
Reduced OP cost of some guns.
Reduded OP on some ships.
Reduced damage and energy cost of the T3 support cannon, now non P9 ships can technically use
Drastically reduced flux cost for the SKV and SKS guns (like 30%).
Fixed Spore MkIII deployment cost.
Buffed Stress fighter hp.
Modified the Korlo's phase system to increase agility.
Various other minor things that I probably forgot.
Added fancypancy engines.
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sotanaht

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AI seems to have trouble using the T3 cannon.  Both on AI controlled ships or just automatic turrets, the computer will do the equivalent of tapping the button when the T3 cannon requires you to hold the button until it fires.

Under player control though, it might be a little overpowered.  Especially on my new favorite player-ship, the Korlo-SKT-Class phase cruiser.  Currently soloing templars with that and 3 T3s.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 09:09:53 AM by sotanaht »
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