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Author Topic: [0.95a] The Mayorate v1.1.0 (2021-11-25)  (Read 282322 times)

HELMUT

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #300 on: October 18, 2015, 08:15:45 AM »

I know you aren't too much around these times, but at least you'll have some stuff to read when you'll come back.

I just finished playing a Nexerelin Mayorate campaign. They're pretty good during early/mid game but i was struggling quite a bit by the end. They currently lack a proper ship of the line for late game battles.

The Lilith fly a bit like a Wolf but without the missiles and the mobility. The Omni shield make it quite a bit tougher to take down, having better shield efficiency and flux stats help a lot too.

I really like the Tiamat, it felt like a high-tech Brawler. Not only it hurt very hard, it's also extremely tough and with its phase leap, surprisingly mobile. I want to say it feel a bit too strong, it have anything you'd want for early game. Unfortunately, it currently share a fatal weakness with the Cimeterre that make it unfit for the AI to use later on, i'll come back on this later.

Speaking of the Cimeterre, it's an awesome destroyer. It obviously hit ridiculously hard with its thermal lance that can drill a hole in every armor. It's countered by shields, but with two universals turrets that can mount kinetic guns, it's not that much of a problem. It's also quite tough, like all mayorate ships, its shield is very good which is complemented by its big flux pool. Add the phase leap on top of that, it's probably one of the best destroyers to get as a flagship.

However the AI really have trouble with the phase leap system and i found it very common for my Cimeterres/Tiamats to jump at point blank range with the enemy. Plus the thermal lance having a long fade time, friendly fire is very common. Fielding a bunch of destroyers is never a bad idea in general, but it really doesn't work with mayorate (unless you're not worried about causalities) just because of the AI spamming phase leap without thinking through. I don't know if it's possible to fix this problem. Either tweaking the phase leap AI, new ship system. Or maybe a new destroyer to fill the backbone role the Cimeterre can't?

The Foraker is pretty good too, like a frontline Gemini, but a bit more expensive. It's good early/mid game when you're not encountering too many cruisers and battleships, the Foraker can then bring its reasonable firepower to the front unlike other carriers. Later one however, the medium turret doesn't have the same impact and the frontline is much more dangerous for a carrier. Which is why i eventually ditched the Foraker for a bunch of Condor for late game.

For the cruisers, the Jamaran felt like the best (only) ship of the line for the Mayorate. I think someone compared it to a Venture earlier in the thread and that's how i feel as well, a high-tech Venture. It's quite a bit more expensive but it is tougher. The large energy and two medium missiles allow for some really good build, either as a front line ship or long range fire-support. It's not a heavy cruiser though, it can't hold the line very well and will eventually go down quickly against something bigger.
 
The Del Azarchel is even less of a front-line ship. While it is very tempting to bring it to the melee so it can use its grav cannon, it will still die very quickly. The two large mounts are pointing sideways, so no capital ship killer build possible either (unless you're willing to perform some spatial acrobatics in the middle of the battle). Personally i didn't knew what to do with this ship. It's too fragile as a front line ship. Too expensive as a pure fire-support ship, especially when the cheaper Jamaran can do it better with its flight deck. It's an okay-ish flagship as the grav cannon require some precision, but why flying a Del Azarchel when you can fly the big one?

The big one in question is the Ravana, and it's a pretty incredible beast. It fill the role of the Conquest without having to spin around like a weather vane to use its guns. It's more expensive but also tougher with it's shield efficiency of 0.5 (better than the Paragon). The locked front shield still require you to be careful as flanking will hurt it real bad. But it's not like you can be flanked as you have one the fastest capital ships in the game, with Maneuvering jets on top of that. There's not much you can't kit to death with a Ravana.

The three frontal large universals permit any kind of build. Triple torpedo launcher, triple Mjolnir, triple Plasma cannon... Things can get really fun when you add other mods. I personally settled for a triple flux torpedo for my flag ship as my fleet badly needed a capital ship killer. I'll say it's too good right now. Its main competitor is the plasma cannon, which is 5 OPs more expensive, have 200 less range and produce quite a bit more flux. Granted, the Flux torpedo have a very low ROF and the slow projectile speed make it quite hard to hit anything smaller than a destroyer. But the very high damage burst will wreck any kind of armor and overload shields like nothing, and even if the target survive, it still deal 2000 EMP damage to disable its weapons. So perhaps a little nerf would be welcome.

I was a bit underwhelmed by the fighters though. The Raad is an overpriced Gladius and didn't felt much stronger, if at all.

Same thing for the Inanna, very expensive. While it is a good interceptor, like the wasp, it is destined to only perform this role and nothing else. It's also stuck at very low combat readiness and won't have as many replacement in battle as other interceptors. On top of that, the beams weapons prevent it to become a threat to shielded targets, unlike Talons that will slowly raise the target hard-flux.

The Angha is the only one i liked. It's outrageously fast, which is huge deal for a bomber, and the rockets are equally fast and accurate. Not the best capital ship killer but they will make quick work of anything smaller. A swarm of Angha is probably one of the worst thing to encounter, you can't dodge them and there isn't many thing you can do to intercept them before they dropped their payload.

Overall i didn't noted any big balance issues, only the phase leap problem was quite bothersome and i don't really know how to fix it. Maybe a little nerf to the Tiamat/Ravana/flux torpedo/Angha, then a little buff to the Del Azarchel/Raad/Inanna. Obviously nothing big, just some tweaks, i think.

The only thing that Mayorate really need? More ships, probably big tough ones that you can let the AI fly. Mayorate struggle pretty hard during end games battles, mostly because there's no ships that can reasonably hold the line against other battleships, even the Ravana. So maybe a Mayo-dominator or even a battleship? Something to think about when you'll find the time.
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Adraius

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #301 on: October 18, 2015, 12:05:00 PM »

Great post, it comes at an awesome time for me, as I've been fighting a long war war with the Mayorate and have captured a lot of their ships, which I'm now integrating into my fleet.

I agree with pretty much all your comments on the Lilith, Tiamat, and Cimeterre.  I'm worried that my Liliths will get torn to pieces when they encounter a destroyer as they have only marginally better flux stats than a Wolf (IIRC) but less mobility and likely a shorter ideal engagement range, but I'll reserve judgement on that until I try them out in some real fights. =) The Tiamat rocks - I'll say more, again, once I've gotten it in some real fights.

The Cimeterre I have actually deployed several of, and it works very well on paper, but the combination of phase leap and the thermal lance make it kinda awkward in practice.  The long duration of phase lance and it's (kinda odd?) ability to persist through phase leaps allow the AI to (unintentially?) pull some cool tactics where they fire off the thermal lance then immediately jump behind the target while rotating 180 degrees, gutting the target's rear.  However, like HELMUT, I've had problems with mine phase leaping forward into overwhelming forces.  Additionally, the duration also really works against it, as the the Cimeterre has a habit of getting in a little too deep thanks to the shortish range of the termal lance, forcing it to back off quickly - this leads to the thermal lance shot that should gut the opponent to instead just graze their front armor and then waste itself shooting vacuum as the Cimeterre retreats out of range.  A moderate reduction to duration and/or increase to range would be great, but I'm unsure if the ship would also need some corresponding nerfs.

I've been hesitating to deploy my Jamaran, as I don't need the flight deck, so I'm glad to hear it's dependable.  I have used a Del Azarchel, however.  Fighting masses of these spamming laserheads and antimatter missiles was very rough on my destroyer-heavy fleet, and I can't wait to make that tactic work for me, if I can ever capture enough of them. =P Until then, I agree that it has a bit of a split focus that makes it unsuitable for major fleet fights, but I've found it a capable hybrid cruiser for my style of charge-the-center/snowballing attacks; some Trebuchets or Heavy Ballistas (if you prefer regenerating ammo) in the missile slots lend credible ranged firepower despite not being able to keep up with the destroyer/fast cruiser charge, and it arrives soon enough to lend a powerful shield and the grav cannon to the fray.  But it can't fight as well against unfavorable odds as most other cruisers, especially in protracted fights, even with regenerating missiles.  Hmm, maybe I should try those large MIRV launchers...

Lastly, I've been puzzling for ages over what to fit my Ravana with, thanks for the ideas HELMUT.  And I love the mod, thanks for your hard work kazi. =)
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Surge

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #302 on: October 20, 2015, 06:35:45 PM »

I quite like the Inanna personally, I agree it has problems with CR, but not losing crew to fighter deaths and still having rather effective interceptors for mob tactics is very nice I think.
So good for early game but falls off pretty hard later on when you can spare the elite crew for squadrons. (Squadrons are always lowest priority for me for veteran crew due to their high attrition rate)
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kazi

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #303 on: October 20, 2015, 07:35:20 PM »

Hah, thanks for all your comments, I agree with pretty much all of them (and have actually already addressed many of them on my end in the current dev). Some comments on my end about the current/intended playstyle (let me know what you think):
Spoiler
========================================================================

-The faction generally dominates/wins battles in the first minute or two of engagement or suffers a crippling defeat. This is especially true in larger engagements, where their lighter craft get wiped out rapidly. See next point.

-Mayorate ships generally need to have the initiative to be effective. They're great vs. solo targets, but as soon as they get targeted by multiple enemies, they either have to disengage or die (especially true for the Lilith/Cimeterre). Although this is intended for those ships, it's a little extreme atm. The only two ships capable of surviving for any length of time are the cruisers and possibly the Tiamat. This faction really needs a heavier destroyer and capital to compensate and give the ultra-dangerous/vulnerable ships like the Lilith/Cimeterre/Ravana breathing room to disengage and reset the fight if they get in trouble.

-Positional play is extremely important. The best Mayorate defensive strategy is absolutely overwhelming firepower. If an enemy gets too close or starts putting pressure on one of your ships you need to destroy/overload/force their retreat as soon as possible. As a result, Mayorate ships do WAY better in clumps where multiple friendlies can help focus on threats.

-The faction does extremely well in and around nebulas and sensor arrays, as those help nullify other factions' speed/maneuverability advantages. Telling a Mayorate fleet to defend a sensor array in a huge nebula usually ends in a complete massacre for the other guys.

-Mayorate ships generally bring much larger, but fewer mounts than other factions. The side-mounted missiles are generally better than what you'd get to carry otherwise, but you have to pay for that with reduced weapon choices (you need seeking missiles capable of hitting targets in front of the ships- dumbfire weapons like topedoes are a bad idea).

-Shields are okay-ish but often a liability. Armor is generally above-average, so you can take a limited number of hits on the hull to compensate. Playing with your shields down a lot is currently the best way to play imo.

-A lot of ships thrive on high flux with the new energy weapons changes. Sure it makes you more vulnerable, but your damage output goes up dramatically as well.  
============================================================================
[close]

For those interested, here is the current changelog for the update I'm sitting on (haven't had time to balance, finish up the last few art assets- namely a medium-mount nuke, new laserhead, station, and a couple other things that I'm totally forgetting about right now).
Spoiler
=================================================================
v0.9 (still being worked on)

GRAPHICS
-Added two new portraits.
-Mayorate portraits are available for player use again.
-Added a bunch of unique interaction images for every Rasht market. They're kind of scribble-y, but whatever.
-Improved Ravana sprite.
-New nuke sprites (mount and launcher)
-New Mayorate faction logo graphics.

COMBAT ADDITIONS AND BALANCE
-Added Disruptor weapon class. Does moderate amounts of fragmentation damage and EMP damage. Although worthless in terms of damage vs. enemy armor, disruptor-type weapons deal hard flux damage directly to enemy ships (dropping shields and taking shots on hull decreases hard flux generation by 50%). You can effectively lock down enemy craft with massed disruptors, although it comes at an extreme cost to DPS (the new particle FX are pretty though!). Comes in medium and large energy mounts and sounds absolutely terrifying when fired.
-Added Shrike Hunter-Killer Drone wing. It's a shielded superiority fighter that's a replacement for the Inanna.
-Added Bubble Shield system to Tiamat. Upon activation, shield rapidly expands to 360 and the ship becomes completely invunerable for a short period of time. Shield-bypassing weapons will still work fine.
-Added Minelayer ship system to the Safir B and Jamaran. The minelayer deploys a spread of 12 high-explosive mines that lay dormant for up to 90 seconds or until an enemy gets near. Once triggered, the mines lunge towards their target and explode for AOE damage. The AI will intelligently deploy the mines when near objectives, ordered to defend or control a location, is under pressure, or thinks it has a chance to finish off a target in close range. The mines are quite lethal if your attention is elsewhere, but can be easily spotted/avoided/cleared with PD weapons if you're cautious. Also, protip: don't ever give an enemy minelayer a chance to fortify an objective - the longer you wait, the more mines it will deploy (saving a few charges to replenish the minefield or as a reserve if you try to attack the minelayer).
-Added Graser beam buff. Grasers (every type) now do bonus damage (up to about 100%-ish increase in damage) based on how much flux you have. They go from being "meh" to really potent fast. One nice effect of this is that Graser PD becomes more effective the more exposed you become (which is a kinda unique mechanic for PD weapons). Should encourage more brinksmanship. ;)
-Laserheads now fire a directed beam attack and launch in salvos of one. Yes, they dump a full power heavy graser into their target.
-The Cimeterre's Thermal Lance is no longer a burst beam. Lance DPS and flux cost dramatically reduced, chargeup/chargedown is now instant. Also benefits from the graser damage buff- the Thermal Lance deals extreme damage at high flux levels (very high risk, very high reward). New fire/loop sounds as well (no more Reapers!). Plays similarly, but is much more responsive feeling.
-New mount setup for Ravana. All the universal mounts are now energy mounts, center large mount is now a medium missile mount, two small energy mounts removed.
-Other balancing stuffs that I'm forgetting about. I messed around with nearly everything, to be honest. Mayorate energy weapon DPS is now in line with the base game again.

CAMPAIGN ADDITIONS
-Integrated relationships for other mod factions.
-Added a consulate to Mayorate worlds. You can now chat with them about other factions and stuff (mostly just for your own amusement).
-Mayorate reputation can be exchanged at the consulate for free ships/strike groups (Mayorate reputation must be "favorable" or above, additional options unlock at higher rep levels). Ships granted are randomized by ship class/type, but come fully equipped and ready to go with crew. The reputation "cost" is massive however.
-Mayorate reputation can be spent at a consulate in order to increase reputation with certain Mayorate allies/neutral factions (Mayorate reputation must be "favorable" or above". Cost is -10 Mayorate rep for +5 <other faction> rep.
-Added Planetary AI Core market condition. Dramatically reduces food/domestic goods consumption in return for a dramatic increase in Metals/Rare Metals/Fuel demand.
-Shuffled around Rasht market conditions.
-All Rasht markets now have a significant amount of flavor text.

MODDING TOOLS
-Custom renderer for spawning beams, a complete rewrite of Tartiflette/Deathfly's FakeBeam code. Beams can be spawned independently of weapons, and functions identically to a normal Starsector beam (the old FakeBeam code was a one-shot affair, where damage and images were applied only once and did not move).
-Custom rule commands for performing dynamic campaign-level scripting through rules.csv. Enable dev mode and dock with a market to try them out.

OTHER
-Changed many sfx to be better/more license-friendly.
-Removed music that wasn't written by me. (2 tracks)
-Removed battle music (it gets old after awhile). Don't worry, it may return as "boss encounter" music in a later update. ;)
-Remastered "The Expanse" ambient music track.
-Added "Nebula" ambient music track.
-Improved writing for most descriptions.
-Changed the faction lore a bit to be a bit more in line with what it was before.
-Probably a lot of stuff I forgot to mention.
==============================================================================
[close]

TL;DR: The new disruptors and minelayer feel absolutely awesome as currently implemented, lots of balance changes, a metric ton of campaign polish, also the new music track is nice.

I need to make some new heavy ships to support the rest, as that's the faction's biggest weakness right now. The new minelayer/disruptors help out with defence in the meantime, since they're outstanding at completely shutting down enemies.

As for release timing, I need to finish up my thesis before I can devote any serious time to getting things done (also going to a wedding in India soon for a few weeks). I'm guessing the release will be maybe a couple weeks after 0.7 drops. Adding ships is probably the most time-consuming endeavour for me when modding, can't commit to one of those until I have some serious time on my hands.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 07:48:35 PM by kazi »
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Adraius

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #304 on: October 20, 2015, 08:02:02 PM »

Ooooooooooo, very nice.

-Disruptors sound interesting... I'll have to try them out to see if I'll like them, though.

-I look forward to trying the bubble shield on the Tiamat, it should help them survive when they get in too deep when trying to use their built-in weapon.  I played around with the Tiamat some more, and realized that the description wasn't kidding when it said it was awkward to use.  I still need more experience with it.

-Minelayer sounds awesome!

-Yay for graser [email protected]  Frankly, I've never touched them, favoring more flux-efficient weapon systems instead.  I'll definitely have to give them a go on some ships.

-New Themal Lance with graser flux benefit sounds scary in the best way possible.

-The Ravana change will help me figure out what the heck to stick in those slots, at least!  I've been puzzling over what to do with mine for awhile now. =P

---

Thanks for sharing all the info!  I look forward to seeing this, whenever it comes out. =)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 08:04:39 PM by Adraius »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #305 on: October 20, 2015, 11:49:25 PM »

[...]-Custom renderer for spawning beams, a complete rewrite of Tartiflette/Deathfly's FakeBeam code. Beams can be spawned independently of weapons, and functions identically to a normal Starsector beam (the old FakeBeam code was a one-shot affair, where damage and images were applied only once and did not move).[...]
To be fair it was limited by design: the AI don't "see" spawned beams and don't raise it's shield against them, and I didn't wanted to cope with feedback like "This doesn't work, you S**K!" or completely over-powered weapons in other mods. However for decorative effects it could be handy (thinking about my LIDAR in Seeker for example).
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kazi

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #306 on: October 21, 2015, 01:15:53 AM »

Hmmm... in the few tests I've done I could have sworn that the AI raises its shield, but I'll need to double check. It could be an artifact of the way I'm spawning beams (perhaps the AI sees the missile and the damage associated with it, even though those damage values don't get used by the game engine?). Definitely something I'll need to look into again, wrote the new beam code wayyyyyy back.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #307 on: October 21, 2015, 01:48:53 AM »

In your case it raises the shield due to the presence of the missile incoming, witch is probably working fine because the beam must be short lived and the missile only removed after. But if you make a fancy continuously firing long range weapon, there might be more issues.
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Tschudy

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #308 on: November 07, 2015, 06:57:06 AM »

Is there a version of this available that isnt locked inside a .rar file?  WinRar seems to really not be free anymore.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #309 on: November 07, 2015, 07:16:17 AM »

Is there a version of this available that isnt locked inside a .rar file?  WinRar seems to really not be free anymore.
You can use 7z then...
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Tschudy

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #310 on: November 07, 2015, 07:19:29 AM »

Is there a version of this available that isnt locked inside a .rar file?  WinRar seems to really not be free anymore.
You can use 7z then...
Awesome!  Now we'll see how those templar bastards like eating their own beam weapons AND miniaturized TPCs
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mangalore

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #311 on: November 08, 2015, 09:27:33 AM »

Hi! I really like the ship design and overall style of the faction.

I was wondering what damage those flare missiles on the Angha bombers do. I hope it's not a flare launcher but something with a big whalop. Currently rather sticking to Vespa or Vanilla torpedo bombers because of that. I find torpedo bombers are the only type of bombers you could half way use to intentionally target a high priority target and take it out early in battle.

Otherwise it would be cool if there were some more variety in the cruiser, battleship role akaone more variant.
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kazi

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #312 on: November 10, 2015, 07:47:31 PM »

iirc the bombers do ~350 high explosive damage and have 8 shots that they fire in quick succession (and track!). They're a really good light bomber, but aren't quite as deadly versus the heavy stuff (although 1-2 wings *will* kill capital ships if deployed at the right moment).

And yeah, I need to make more ships. That's kind of a given.
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mangalore

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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #313 on: November 12, 2015, 12:22:00 AM »

iirc the bombers do ~350 high explosive damage and have 8 shots that they fire in quick succession (and track!). They're a really good light bomber, but aren't quite as deadly versus the heavy stuff (although 1-2 wings *will* kill capital ships if deployed at the right moment).

And yeah, I need to make more ships. That's kind of a given.

Thx for the Info. Playing in Nexerlin I mainly feel they fall off in the higher categories. One cruiser very missile focussed, the other rather slow and carrier focussed makes both more support and the battlecruiser is very front focussed leaving it a bit in a scram in big fleet actions.

Ended up with a Black Rock Shipyard heavy destroyer and a bunch of Cimeterras in support as the main force. While good also a bit squishy in places.
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Re: [0.6.5.1a] The Mayorate v0.8.1 (updated 3/11/14)
« Reply #314 on: November 29, 2015, 04:09:59 PM »

I like your mod, can't wait for the update!
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