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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy  (Read 87107 times)

AMDAMK

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2014, 12:06:12 PM »


And I have another Question, you're not gonna to support the version for 62a RC4?



Oh, and the "Mayflower-class Dreadnought" could have a bit more weapons; a single fight between the "Yamato vs Mayflower", the Yamato is winning.


62a RC4?  I didn't know it was out yet.  Once it's officially released I'll update the mod.

Oh, i mean the 0.62a RC3, that is my fault, i think there was a rc4 version, but it didnt.
Starsector Version 0.62a RC4 ist the last version before 0.65a came out, i think ( i can be wrong )

Spoiler


I see, the pic is broken, but rightclik > open in a new tab | then it should work.

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Quote
For the Mayflower, it always have been more of a mobile artillery than an actual battleship. The Yamato on the other hand is one of the strongest battleship in the game, so no wonder it wrecked its opponent. They just don't fit the same combat role. I haven't played them yet in the campaign but when i'll do, i'll tell you if something need to be changed.

Ah, a artillery. Never though about it, it can be an artillery.

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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2014, 12:39:48 PM »

The effect is immediate.

Here's "naked" SS:

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And here's with Patria:

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Also for some reason the Patrian mod really screw the sector's supply economy, which make the game very tricky considering that Patrian ships are quite expensive to maintain.

Without the mod:

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With the mod, supplies never go under 100:

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Here's their trade screen:

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I don't know much about how the SS trade system work so i can't help you much on this one.


Edit: Another thing, the rep modification is also doubled for some reasons.

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The advantage is that it's very helpful, grinding rep with Patrians is hard as they don't post bounties and have very few enemies coming to their system.

Those are a lot of strange bugs.  I'm sure something is messed up on my end.  But as for the ship count bug, I'm not getting it.  I'll have to poke at it some more.

I honestly always liked the contrast the vanilla weapon mounts gave.  Without them they looked really flat and dull.

I'm not saying remove them, of course, just perhaps make a custom sprite for the mounts that fits more into the 'theme' of the ships. I'm no artist, but perhaps a dark grey, slightly shaded feel might be better?

That being said, I think the ship sprites themselves are a little flat. It might be the single color-or-so thing. Doesnt really highlight the nice details that many of your ship models have. The Danae, for example, just looks very... two-dimensional. I honestly think it'd look better in a sort of vertical-missile-launch mode, with little square pods for the missile launchers while the actual launcher sprite is fully hidden.

They're kinda flat, yeah.  But then again, they're boats.  Sorta supposed to be.  I've never been terribly proud of my spritework but I think it's... sufficient, for now.  Someday when I improve I might take a crack at a visual overhaul.

As for the Danae, I totally agree with you.  Unfortunately I wanted to rely largely on vanilla missile weaponry (for now) and these force rendering the missiles even if the launcher itself is hidden.  So I'd need to duplicate all the weapons and change that myself, and... honestly I kinda like the whole "rows&rows o' missiles" thing it has going on.
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Zaphide

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2014, 02:06:23 PM »

I don't believe you need these lines in your data/scripts/world/PatriaGen.java file:

Code
sector.registerPlugin(new CoreCampaignPluginImpl());
sector.addScript(new CoreScript());
sector.addScript(new CoreEventProbabilityManager());
sector.addScript(new EconomyFleetManager());

as I think this will duplicate all the core scripts that manage the economy and associated merc/pirate/trade fleets.

Sorry, not at home to check and confirm :)
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AMDAMK

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #78 on: December 15, 2014, 02:37:25 PM »

Here, for example, i have it again, but, at this time, i can play, but only a few minutes...

Spoiler
471074 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.O0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  - java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.s.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.oOOO.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.B.??00(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.O0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.super.int$new(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.O0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.sizeChanged(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.float.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.float.?0000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.MarketInfoPanel.sizeChanged(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.T.sizeChanged(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.coreui.OO0o.sizeChanged(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.setSize(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.int$5.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.int.setCurrentTab(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.int.setCurrentTab(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.P.showCoreInternal(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.P.showCore(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.OpenCoreTab.execute(OpenCoreTab.java:39)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.D.runScript(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:96)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:46)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:52)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:110)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:139)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.P$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.String.A.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
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krech

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #79 on: December 15, 2014, 02:42:12 PM »

is it possbile in your mod to be a fighter pilot?
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AMDAMK

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #80 on: December 15, 2014, 02:48:25 PM »

is it possbile in your mod to be a fighter pilot?


Nope. So far as i know, not even the Vanillagame is supporting to piloting a fighter.
And this mod have it too, no support for "Piloting-a-Fighter". But maybe, the autor will make this true, but so far as i know, it is very heavy to make this happen.

But, let the mod-opener speak, i think, he will know more than i. ;)
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Jsay19

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #81 on: December 15, 2014, 06:09:50 PM »

is it possbile in your mod to be a fighter pilot?
Apparently you can do that with Devtools. There is a Thread in General that would interest you.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #82 on: December 16, 2014, 09:06:26 AM »

is it possbile in your mod to be a fighter pilot?

I wish!  I could design a frigate that looks and feels like a fighter, but you wouldn't be able to repair & refit, and you'd of course be super squishy, nor would you get your wingmen.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #83 on: December 16, 2014, 09:23:10 AM »

Well, you can still cheat your way around that. Create a small ship, give it a drone ship-system, and create system-less copy of your ship for the spawned drones...
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #84 on: December 16, 2014, 09:38:26 AM »

Well, you can still cheat your way around that. Create a small ship, give it a drone ship-system, and create system-less copy of your ship for the spawned drones...

Hmm, true.  I may make a mission that lets you pilot a fighter wing!  It won't be integrated into the campaign or anything else; a little too hacky for my tastes.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #85 on: December 16, 2014, 05:29:46 PM »

I played the campaign, unfortunately i couldn't get very far as the biggest ship they were selling was the Charger destroyer. Every other ships were only frigates and fighters and even then only some of them.

First of all, i felt like pirates in Patria had pretty big fleets early game. Of course they had the usual lone smugglers flying around but other fleets were at least group of 5/6 frigates and sometimes destroyers, making an early game in this system pretty hard. Possibly a bug that come with the duplicated economy error?

A lot of Patrian ships have rear facing missile hardpoints. Unless you place a Pilum or some swarmers there, it's nearly useless for every other missiles.

The Magnanimous class lack any weapons, which cause issues with the AI as it will try to hug its target. A single energy or ballistic hardpoint could fix this problem (but not missile i think) without making it too strong, perhaps increasing its deployment cost a bit as well.

The Bastion 3 small ballistics turrets use medium mounts sprites.

Phase ships don't have a cloak glow effect.

Some ships have really few OPs to use while some other (like the charger) are comfortable enough to get weapons, hullmods and additional flux capacity, not sure if intended.

Each fighters have two variants, which make them quite confusing to use. They already have a lot of fighters for different roles, no need to add variants to them.

There's a lot more things to say, like some weapons that are so close to vanilla that they don't really deserve to actually exist, plus they use barely modified vanilla sprites which is even more confusing. But before balancing everything, the most important would be to make the mod playable because it currently feel like an early alpha. Few ships available, weird economy, no bounties... A lot of details that make the campaign experience very uncomfortable.

So yeah, it need quite a few fixes.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2014, 08:47:19 PM »

I played the campaign, unfortunately i couldn't get very far as the biggest ship they were selling was the Charger destroyer. Every other ships were only frigates and fighters and even then only some of them.

First of all, i felt like pirates in Patria had pretty big fleets early game. Of course they had the usual lone smugglers flying around but other fleets were at least group of 5/6 frigates and sometimes destroyers, making an early game in this system pretty hard. Possibly a bug that come with the duplicated economy error?

A lot of Patrian ships have rear facing missile hardpoints. Unless you place a Pilum or some swarmers there, it's nearly useless for every other missiles.

The Magnanimous class lack any weapons, which cause issues with the AI as it will try to hug its target. A single energy or ballistic hardpoint could fix this problem (but not missile i think) without making it too strong, perhaps increasing its deployment cost a bit as well.

The Bastion 3 small ballistics turrets use medium mounts sprites.

Phase ships don't have a cloak glow effect.

Some ships have really few OPs to use while some other (like the charger) are comfortable enough to get weapons, hullmods and additional flux capacity, not sure if intended.

Each fighters have two variants, which make them quite confusing to use. They already have a lot of fighters for different roles, no need to add variants to them.

There's a lot more things to say, like some weapons that are so close to vanilla that they don't really deserve to actually exist, plus they use barely modified vanilla sprites which is even more confusing. But before balancing everything, the most important would be to make the mod playable because it currently feel like an early alpha. Few ships available, weird economy, no bounties... A lot of details that make the campaign experience very uncomfortable.

So yeah, it need quite a few fixes.

I forgot to add a disclaimer that campaign integration wasn't quite ready yet.  It's very hacky and poorly done imo.  Did you try 2.2?  It might've fixed the campaign bugs.

That said, all missile turrets are intended to be used as PD, so both the Sling and the Swarmer SRM work for that.  Rear facing missile hardpoints were implemented to discourage the use of anything but LRMs and MRMs; I didn't want, say, the Groundhog to be able to put out a huge amount of Annihilators.

I've never actually run into the Magnanimous issue, but I've seen it before with other ships; it's very annoying and I suppose I'll have to put in a rear-facing LMG or so.

The Bastion used to have 3 medium turrets, but this was changed later.  The sprite simply hasn't been updated yet.  This is also the case on the Yamato.  Low priority, imo.

Phase ships were intended not to have a glow effect.  If I add one it'll be subtle; I want them to at least look hidden.

Most ships are intended to be very inflexible.  The Charger I may take a look at as it's not designed to be any more versatile than its role requires.

Fighters having variants was another deliberate design decision.  It might be confusing, and I've considered this before; I might add different emblems, sprites, or even hull colors to fighter-bombers.  I initially considered making only one variant and designating, say, the ASF-4 for fighter-bomber while the F-104 was only used as an interceptor, but imo that really messed with the fluff.  I know it's not exactly SS or gameplay friendly, but beyond small visual cues I don't see myself removing the variant part.  After all, fighter-bombers still aren't that dangerous as bombers (their weapons are all relatively low damage, making them mediocre against armor despite being strike weapons).

It feels like an early alpha because it is.  I just didn't communicate that well; apologies for that!  I mentioned weapon sprites being on the way in the OP.  And as for some weapons being too close to vanilla; I've tried to avoid this, which is why I've removed the fighter-specific weapons.

The Coilguns still haven't received a scrutiny pass as I've been focusing on other things.  They were intended to be low-accuracy, lower-range, beefed up Railguns that did such high damage they could be used to destroy armor as well as pop shields, in exchange for mediocre (but not bad) DPS and horrible flux costs.  I thought they were interesting to use, but this is obviously going to be subjective.

I'm also of the opinion that adding new weapons isn't necessarily a bad thing and that they don't have to be radically different from vanilla weapons.  I still try to reduce redundancy though, which is why there are no Large TPCs (plasma cannons more or less fill that role/fluff), nor is there a Large Coilgun.

Flak artillery and carronades were the result of experimentation.  I'm not sure if I want to keep them.  I like the idea of a Fragmentation cannon, and I think I've finally balanced them well enough (it was a nightmare to do so).  Once they get their own sprite I think they'll fit in nicely as low-tech choices besides coilguns.

I'm considering switching the coilgun to Ballistic and removing the Light coilgun, as most ships just use the Railgun now anyway.  I could very well just rely on the Hvel driver, but it doesn't look... coily enough to me.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 08:52:16 PM by NikolaiLev »
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Shyguy

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2014, 07:31:12 AM »

Will we be seeing a HE large weapon that does splash damage around a moderate area, or a large kinetic that can knock a ship back like how a frigate can knock another frigate off course by ramming.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2014, 08:30:34 AM »

Will we be seeing a HE large weapon that does splash damage around a moderate area, or a large kinetic that can knock a ship back like how a frigate can knock another frigate off course by ramming.

The Widebore Cannonade was supposed to have huge splash damage.  I just forgot about it.  Will add it in the next update.

As for a large kinetic weapon?  I could make it deal insane amounts of "impact" per the .csv, though I'm not sure how that'd perform.  The Graviton Beam is the only vanilla weapon that still has a significant amount of impact (which is more like "jitter" tbh).

Will test!
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Shyguy

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2014, 02:50:53 PM »

As for a large kinetic weapon?  I could make it deal insane amounts of "impact" per the .csv, though I'm not sure how that'd perform.  The Graviton Beam is the only vanilla weapon that still has a significant amount of impact (which is more like "jitter" tbh).

You could always base it off a frigate ramming something when it uses a burndrive or looking at how the sharkhead from SS+ acts when it rams something using its burndrive.
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