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Author Topic: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?  (Read 3003 times)

Megas

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A challenge I tried recently was to beat a system defense fleet with no more than 40 FP (to prevent objectives from spawning).  A cruiser or capital soloing the fleet is known, but what about frigates, now that CR decay (for high-tech ships) is a consideration?

I tried a frigate swarm of eight Lashers, sending my whole fleet against the enemy fleet.  All of the AI controlled Lashers perished quickly - not enough ships to outgun a superior fleet.  Then I thought, what if I send a single Lasher and pilot each one, and pilot the next one after my current Lasher gets disabled or forced to retreat?  Lashers can play a mean kiting game and solo almost any standard ship in the game.  Long story short, I defeated the defense fleet with four or five Lashers out of my eight.  I tried this again with other ship types, and I have also beaten the defense fleet with four out of six Tempests, four out of eight Brawlers, and six out of eight Wolves.  The battles were tedious, and less fun than fighting as part of a fleet once the novelty wore off, but it was effective (at reducing casualties).  The game played like Asteroids, with enemy ships as asteroids and saucers, and my reserve fleet as extra lives.

The idea can be extended to destroyers and cruisers, where if you send in your backup ships to fight with you, the AI will eventually do something stupid and die.  Instead, send in one ship at a time, and if the flagship has the misfortune of dying, send in a backup and transfer command to it.
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Gothars

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 08:34:42 AM »

Ha! Haha! Alex, your idea for preventing kiting has been levered out! So simple! Ich lach mich tot!
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Megas

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 08:41:37 AM »

Configurations used by my frigates, with max Combat and Technology:

Brawler
Weapons:  Heavy Mauler, Hypervelocity Driver, Harpoon MRM (Single) x2
Hullmods:  Augmented Engines, Expended Magazines, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduit
Capacitors:  11
Vents:  10

Lasher
Weapons:  Light Needler x2, Light Assault Gun x3, Harpoon MRM (Single) x2
Hullmods:  Augmented Engines, Expended Magazines, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduit
Capacitors:  11
Vents:  10

Tempest
Weapons:  Pulse Laser x2, Harpoon MRM (Single)
Hullmods:  Augmented Engines, Extended Shields, Hardened Subsystems, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduit
Capacitors:  10
Vents:  10

Wolf
Weapons:  Heavy Blaster, Burst PD Laser x3, Harpoon MRM (Single) x2
Hullmods:  Augmented Engines, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduit
Capacitors:  11
Vents:  10
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Alex

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2013, 08:52:32 AM »

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to try that :)

I don't think it's going to hold up as well after AI ship captains get skills; I'd imagine you had lots of points both in Combat and Technology to be able to kite well enough and do enough damage. I mean, without Combat skills, it takes a Tempest almost all of its peak active time just to bring down an Onslaught while firing at the same square centimeter of armor! Ultimately, if a Combat+Tech specced character can pull this type of thing of, that's something I can live with. If an Industry or Leadership specced character is forced to do this to maximize their effectiveness, that'd be a problem.

The other issue is that, I think, the "peak active time" change played a role in this, and that's already been adjusted down for the next release.

Another consideration is that it's not the allied AI to blame here, but more the fact that it doesn't benefit from your Combat skills. Once officers exist, that'll change the equation, and also make this a much less desireble tactic for a non-combat-dedicated character. If saving a ship for you to pilot means it's actually less effective...
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Megas

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2013, 09:19:54 AM »

Brawlers do not have CR decay.  Only running out of ammo or untimely demise forces them out of play.  They are one of the better frigates to solo a defense fleet due to no CR decay and long-range medium ballistics.  Fighters are pain to dispatch because they are hard to hit with Heavy Mauler/HVD and waste ammo.

Peak active performance only helped when CR was not decaying.  Once decay began, it never stopped.  I suspect it would not help Hyperion much - I constantly teleport when not shooting or venting when I play Hyperion.  That is one setup I should try, two Hyperions.

Technology is useful for hullmods, Entoptic Rangefinder perk (this is *critical*), and +OP%.
Combat is useful for Optimized Assembly (more OP, yay!), Emergency Repairs, Safety Override, and both Helmsmanship perks.
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Borgoid

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2013, 07:25:15 PM »

This kind of thing isn't limited to peak performance frigates, if I'm playing with Gedune I keep a Tenzen in my back pocket for emergencies, Nomads it's a Komodo, Blackrock a Nevermore, hell in Vannila I tend to just cart around an Enforcer even if I never intend to use it.

The CR system encourages deploying the bare minimum to overcome any given obstacle and.. that bare minimum is always one ship in my experience.
Given that the CR maintenance cost is so low in comparison to the deployment cost, and the " oops I blew up your ship " AI, it's exponentially more efficient to pilot every ship in your "fleet" personally.
I'd be surprised if not personally flying any given ship was the less effective option, pleasantly surprised however.
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Cycerin

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Re: Do you use your fleet as extra flagship lives instead of an AI fleet?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 05:05:45 AM »

If you really can't stand having to aim around/position yourself based on your frigate wingmen, use phase frigates.
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