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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hostile Activity (09/01/22)

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Author Topic: Combat Readyness isn't fun..  (Read 140021 times)

Rounin

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #495 on: December 16, 2018, 08:13:01 PM »

overcoming them is part of gameplay. Sometimes its very hard.

The most involved I've ever gotten with it was holding down shift while I was reading a book.
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TrashMan

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #496 on: December 17, 2018, 02:29:19 AM »

Honestly, ships need to use METAL for repairs, not just general "supplies".

You can't plug a man-sized hole in your armor with space clothing, food rations, toothpase, spare screws and tools and similar.
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Serenitis

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #497 on: December 17, 2018, 03:24:44 AM »

Honestly, ships need to use METAL for repairs, not just general "supplies".

You can't plug a man-sized hole in your armor with space clothing, food rations, toothpase, spare screws and tools and similar.

Just rationalise it as supplies including hull patching material, space welding equipment, and lots of expanding spacebuilders foam.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #498 on: December 17, 2018, 03:45:32 AM »

Honestly, ships need to use METAL for repairs, not just general "supplies".

You can't plug a man-sized hole in your armor with space clothing, food rations, toothpase, spare screws and tools and similar.

Just rationalise it as supplies including hull patching material, space welding equipment, and lots of expanding spacebuilders foam.

Rather than having to rationalize yet another thing, it might be more interesting if the game actually gave you something meaningful to do with all that metal you hoover up from salvage, rather than just jettisoning it as you get better stuff. The way you can construct nav relays with it is a good thing. It could also be interesting for ship hull repairs.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 03:48:41 AM by nomadic_leader »
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Serenitis

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #499 on: December 17, 2018, 06:32:30 AM »

All this would do is either force the player to carry metals around with them (or always have enough free space to salvage them) - essentially a cargo space tax. Or induce the player into conducting micromanagement with floating cargo pods in order to repair damaged ships, while staying in one place to recover the items you dropped to make room for metals.

More complexity isn't always more good and some things are obfusicated for a reason. 'Realism' is not always a good thing to include in a game because it can get in the way of gameplay and turn things into chores.

If you're looking for something meaningful to do with metal, have a think about the player either reconditioning abandoned habitats etc, and/or building thier own.
This might need it's own thread...
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #500 on: December 17, 2018, 07:53:55 AM »

All this would do is either force the player to carry metals around with them (or always have enough free space to salvage them) - essentially a cargo space tax. Or induce the player into conducting micromanagement with floating cargo pods in order to repair damaged ships, while staying in one place to recover the items you dropped to make room for metals.

More complexity isn't always more good and some things are obfusicated for a reason. 'Realism' is not always a good thing to include in a game because it can get in the way of gameplay and turn things into chores.

If you're looking for something meaningful to do with metal, have a think about the player either reconditioning abandoned habitats etc, and/or building thier own.
This might need it's own thread...

More complexity isn't always a bad thing. Realism is not always a bad thing. In general, whenever the game gives us new ways to use commodities, I find that it's fun (using metal to build nav beacon, comm relay etc) or at least interesting (using volatiles for the neutron sniffer).

The point is, that you're CONSTANTLY finding metal after every. single. fight. There is no danger of not having enough. If you could use it to repair hull damage instead of losing additional supplies, that would be kind of a nice, eh? In fact, the fleet management aspect of starsector becomes more interesting and thought provoking the more resources you juggle. If the game is supposed to be about combat, just have it be the combat missions in the main menu.

 I'd like it every commodity in the game had some kind of use besides just being a trade good. So far the ones that do are volatiles, rare metals, metal, supplies, fuel, crew, and heavy equipment. Did I miss any?
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Thaago

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #501 on: December 17, 2018, 08:14:53 AM »

Huh? Why is this topic now in this 5 year old thread... well whatever.


Why should repairs require metals? Starships aren't made of metal, they're made of [insert sci fi babble here]. Metal might be useful for a hull patch, but that counts for like 1% of repairs!

[Realism arguments mean nothing.]

More seriously, from a gameplay perspective I do see one upside for allowing metals to substitute for supplies: they give an additional balance knob for incentivizing the player to take hull damage.

Case 1: flawless victory with too many ships: extra supply usage.

Case 2: victory but the fight was more messy than expected: metal drop allows repairs without eating into profits.

However, this is a pretty thin justification as there are already skills for post combat healing and supplies are plentifully dropped from every fight (especially if the player is carting around some shepherds for drone/salvage/survey support). Using metals in this way is simply bonus post combat healing.

Having metals required for repairs (ie can't do it without them) I see no benefit at all: they become a cargo tax. I would not find the additional resource interesting or thought provoking. Rather I'd just cart some around and be done with it (and occasionally forget and be annoyed).
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DancingMonkey

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #502 on: December 17, 2018, 08:39:21 AM »

The biggest thing I don't like is that enemy ships seem to cheat it.
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DaLagga

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #503 on: December 17, 2018, 10:45:40 AM »

The biggest thing I don't like is that enemy ships seem to cheat it.

The AI obviously cheats when it comes to things like money and supplies but I haven't noticed it cheating in terms of CR.  If an enemy fights a battle or loses to you then their CR drops.  If your harry their retreat, it drops even more and takes a while to recover.  If you drop their CR low enough you can take out their entire fleet and they won't even be able to fight back.  I haven't tested to see if CR recovery takes exactly as long for them as it does the player but it seems like it does. 
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Alex

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #504 on: December 17, 2018, 10:47:26 AM »

(Just confirming that it indeed works the same for the AI. Also, generally speaking, thread necromancy is... well, against the forum rules, for one.)
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