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Author Topic: Combat Readyness isn't fun..  (Read 132222 times)

Reshy

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #480 on: October 16, 2013, 09:51:27 PM »

The problem is that CR doesn't make waiting FUN it's just the Starfarer equivalent of a loading screen only it consumes resources.  It's kind of like why stealth in action games goes so poorly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC22ZF21Llk

Explained here.
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Dr.Noid

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #481 on: October 17, 2013, 01:32:53 AM »

The problem is that CR doesn't make waiting FUN it's just the Starfarer equivalent of a loading screen only it consumes resources.
That's because there's nothing to do in the waiting time... YET.
So now's your chance to influence the direction of the game. What would you like to be doing in the downtime between battles?
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dmaiski

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #482 on: October 17, 2013, 03:01:05 AM »

:P have you guys heard of the shift key?

(see my sugestion thread on subject, i update it based on the responses i get)
shamless self advertising
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 04:33:02 AM by dmaiski »
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BISO
(WIP) lots of shiny new weapons ( :-[ i have more weapons then sprites :-[ )

i got a cat pad
its like a mouse pad but better!

Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #483 on: October 17, 2013, 08:28:29 AM »

Thaago:
Spoiler
I do not use missiles, except single Harpoons because they are free, and against the SDF, they are used only against venting (or overloaded) Condors or Enforcers.  I use needler x2 and light assault gun x3.  With the best from Combat and Technology, a Lasher flagship can outrange and kite nearly every AI ship in the game, except an Onslaught or any smaller ship with heavy maulers/HVDs (usually Brawlers and Enforcers).  The basic strategy is overload shields with needlers, from outside their weapons range.  When their flux is high and shields are down, approach and strip their armor with light assault guns.  Once the armor is gone, the Lasher can back off and pepper ships with needles at exposed hull.

Super Lasher configuration
Weapons:  Light Needler x2, Light Assault Gun x3, Harpoon MRM (Single) x2
Hullmods:  Augmented Engines, Expended Magazines, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduit
Capacitors:  11
Vents:  10

Special strategies:
Weak, unshielded targets (e.g., fighters, Hound):  Press F and let assault guns mow the target down.
Eagle:  Tougher fight because of graviton beams, and beams are effective against low-tech frigates.  Graviton beams outrange assault guns, but not your needlers.  Hit their shields until their flux is high, and the Eagle backs off.  While it shakes back-and-forth, get closer and strip off the armor with assault guns.
Onslaught:  One of the few ships that outranges the Lasher.  Fortunately, the Lasher can easily flank and stay at the rear of an Onslaught, so that only the medium autocannons are a threat.  It needs to pepper the engines with assault guns.  After that, the Lasher can stay further back and fire needles at exposed hull.
Paragon:  This is the one ship where the above configuration does not work.  Even after the Lasher makes it to the Paragon's rear, the Lasher's needlers barely outranges the Paragon's needlers.  If the Lasher tries to get closer to use assault guns, the Paragon will unload autopulse lasers and blasters too.  No way the Lasher can withstand that.  3000 needles alone are not enough to kill the Paragon.  The only way the Lasher can win is use a light needler x5 configuration and fire needles until it dies, while staying within the rear of the Paragon AND the narrow difference of range between your needlers and the Paragon's.  It takes at least 4000 needlers to take out the Paragon.  The Lasher has 5000 maximum (it does not have enough OP for Expanded Magazines).

In one of my battles with the SDF, I managed to take out two Onslaughts with this Lasher.
[close]

Back on topic, Reshy points out another reason why I dislike CR:  It is an effective loading screen for those who like to chain-battle, and chain-battling is fun.
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PCCL

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #484 on: October 17, 2013, 08:42:42 AM »

For some... personally i prefer a little break between battles
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mmm.... tartiflette

Reshy

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #485 on: October 19, 2013, 01:18:18 AM »

Honestly ships need to lose less CR if the battles are short and the ships aren't heavily damaged or depleted on ammo.


It could be broken down like so.


50% of the ships 'Deployment Cost' is calculated based on how long the battle went, after 10~15 minutes it hits that full 50% value.

25% of the deployment cost is calculated based on how much ammo remains in a ship, note that ships that do not have ammo based weapons count as 0/0 which is still 100%.

25% of the deployment cost is based on if the ship took hull damage in the battle or not.  If it did it's the full 25%, if not it's 0%.



So for a 40% deployment cost on a Medusa 20% would be time based,  10% would be ammo based, and the last 10% is hull condition.  If you do battles effectively you can lose very little CR.
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Uomoz

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #486 on: October 19, 2013, 05:39:02 AM »

Honestly ships need to lose less CR if the battles are short and the ships aren't heavily damaged or depleted on ammo.


It could be broken down like so.


50% of the ships 'Deployment Cost' is calculated based on how long the battle went, after 10~15 minutes it hits that full 50% value.

25% of the deployment cost is calculated based on how much ammo remains in a ship, note that ships that do not have ammo based weapons count as 0/0 which is still 100%.

25% of the deployment cost is based on if the ship took hull damage in the battle or not.  If it did it's the full 25%, if not it's 0%.



So for a 40% deployment cost on a Medusa 20% would be time based,  10% would be ammo based, and the last 10% is hull condition.  If you do battles effectively you can lose very little CR.

The whole point of CR is making trivial battles not trivial. A time system would make it not trivial again.
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Thaago

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #487 on: October 19, 2013, 11:14:16 AM »

Honestly ships need to lose less CR if the battles are short and the ships aren't heavily damaged or depleted on ammo.


It could be broken down like so.


50% of the ships 'Deployment Cost' is calculated based on how long the battle went, after 10~15 minutes it hits that full 50% value.

25% of the deployment cost is calculated based on how much ammo remains in a ship, note that ships that do not have ammo based weapons count as 0/0 which is still 100%.

25% of the deployment cost is based on if the ship took hull damage in the battle or not.  If it did it's the full 25%, if not it's 0%.



So for a 40% deployment cost on a Medusa 20% would be time based,  10% would be ammo based, and the last 10% is hull condition.  If you do battles effectively you can lose very little CR.

Well the idea behind the 'stand down' option is to recover CR if the battle was easy. The problem is that the option seems to never be available after an easy battle :D
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Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #488 on: October 19, 2013, 11:16:12 AM »

Quote
Well the idea behind the 'stand down' option is to recover CR if the battle was easy. The problem is that the option seems to never be available after an easy battle.
It also lets survivors you want to kill escape cleanly.
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Thaago

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #489 on: October 19, 2013, 11:18:25 AM »

Quote
Well the idea behind the 'stand down' option is to recover CR if the battle was easy. The problem is that the option seems to never be available after an easy battle.
It also lets survivors you want to kill escape cleanly.

I think that makes sense - if you are chasing survivors you are still operating at combat conditions. So you don't get to recover CR.
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Wyvern

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #490 on: October 19, 2013, 11:20:59 AM »

Well the idea behind the 'stand down' option is to recover CR if the battle was easy. The problem is that the option seems to never be available after an easy battle :D
Actually, no; the idea behind the stand down option is to prevent a fleet of frigates from gaming the CR system against, say, a Paragon.  If you took the option out, someone with a pile of hounds could attack a Paragon, retreat, and repeat until the Paragon ran out of CR and died an ignominious death.

With stand down, you can still harry a lone Paragon into CR-oblivion - but you have to actually sacrifice ships to do so.  Lots of ships.  I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but I believe it works out to more than one hound per engagement.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Thaago

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #491 on: October 19, 2013, 11:24:04 AM »

That may be one effect of stand down, but its not its only effect. What I was meaning to say is that the content of your post could be completely included in the stand down mechanic by tweaking whatever algorithm determines its effects.
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namad

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #492 on: October 20, 2013, 10:51:14 AM »

I haven't had any problems at all with combat readiness unless I do something foolish like waste a lot of CR pursue'ing ships I can't possibly catch.

If you're attacking enemies, destroying ships, salvaging, and leaving to look for another target... it's hard to find that another target before most of your CR is back? sure it varies, a 30CR deploy ship might be useful twice as often as a 70CR deploy ship?


I think the main flaw is purely economical... being able to hunt poorly defended buffalo for the massive bounty in supplies each one carries. if supplies can't cost less, maybe ships should cost more? if ships can't cost more...then the problem is purely of enemy fleet layout... large freighters with tons of supply inside them shouldn't be defended by a hound and a talon fighter wing.

most buffalo pirate fleets as they are now might make sense if they used hounds as their freighters, or if freighters and freighter rewards were totally rebalanced.... basically hunting enemy freighters is just too important now that 90% of your income comes from selling freighter supplies... this means killing enemy combat ships has almost no reward unless those combat ships are escorting a freighter... advancement in starfarer .61a campaign mode is basically just about how many freighters you can kill. yes this is a problem. however I do not think this problem is because of CR and supply, it's just another problem that CR and supply have highlighted.
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Lopunny Zen

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #493 on: December 16, 2018, 07:20:42 PM »

Wll sorry to say this but I just got caught by 6 fleets. They were all small and caught and fought me 1 at a time. I beat 5 but by the time I hit 6 my frigs were done. They just swarm you with disposable enemies that you can no longer deal with because CR is broken. Could have beaten the 6 and went about me day but dont worry....CR IS HERE TO RUIN THE GAME....as intended
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Thaago

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #494 on: December 16, 2018, 08:10:08 PM »

Wll sorry to say this but I just got caught by 6 fleets. They were all small and caught and fought me 1 at a time. I beat 5 but by the time I hit 6 my frigs were done. They just swarm you with disposable enemies that you can no longer deal with because CR is broken. Could have beaten the 6 and went about me day but dont worry....CR IS HERE TO RUIN THE GAME....as intended

AHHH The dead have arisen, everybody runn!!!!

: cough :

Sounds to me like you were simply worn down and defeated. Could you have taken all 6 fleets attacking you together?

If you were caught by 6 separate fleets and none fought together, then they were pretty darn separated in space. Could you have run away from later fleets? Or juke + hide in debris fields? Or led them on a chase to recover CR? Related, could you have deployed less ships in each fight? If you see so many other fleets coming (one after another but far away) then reserving ship for later fights is a really good idea.

Combat readiness is a fine mechanic that introduces stresses on the player: overcoming them is part of gameplay. Sometimes its very hard.
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