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Author Topic: Combat Readyness isn't fun..  (Read 151238 times)

PCCL

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #420 on: October 06, 2013, 01:36:43 AM »

ok yeah that I kinda agree with... I understand we should have SEVERE debuffs for %0 CR, but do we have to make it non deployable whatsoever?

Can't we just let them deploy at such a deteriorated state that they basically can't fight worth a damn instead?
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #421 on: October 06, 2013, 04:14:10 AM »

The problem i have with combat readiness is that you can't even run away anymore with 0%, because your crew has forgotten how to turn on shields, use the engines basically everything but turning your turrets without firing, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, i understand having problem and malfunctions but locking down the whole ship because what, your crew suddenly died or forgot how to use even the most basic systems... it's not fun to get taken out by a pirate fleet that you could have easily run away from with basic controls. I'm not even talking about fighting here. It does not make sense in the form it is now, there is a difference between your crew being exhausted and your crew being dead and suicidal because of low cr.

0 CR means your crew is running on 72 hours without sleep, there's no ammo in the bins, the reactor is running on fumes and your batteries are drained. 0 CR means all they can do is barely keep the engines running to maybe get away. It's the equivalent of a mothballed ship - no OS installed on your motherboards, no clean sheets in the crew berths and the showers only run cold.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #422 on: October 06, 2013, 07:35:58 AM »

ok yeah that I kinda agree with... I understand we should have SEVERE debuffs for %0 CR, but do we have to make it non deployable whatsoever?

Can't we just let them deploy at such a deteriorated state that they basically can't fight worth a damn instead?

Why would you want to risk your ship by deploying it in such a state anyway?
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Vind

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #423 on: October 06, 2013, 08:07:26 AM »

Main point is how after 2-3 battles without taking damage ship basically cant do anything independent of actions in combat. You can deploy ship and it will just turn on shields and do nothing positive in the hands of AI but ship will still got full CR penalty for deployment. This is bad because AI ships dont have any CR reduction for deployment and basically they drain your fleet supply to nothing. In other words then you pilot single ship CR isnt an issue because you use ship to maximum effect - AI on the other hand is very bad at doing things - they even collide with each other for no reason. Right now AI ships is nothing more than enemy distraction until player will do things right.
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Gothars

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #424 on: October 06, 2013, 08:13:52 AM »

Why would you want to risk your ship by deploying it in such a state anyway?

Sometimes it's a decision between risking a ship or risking the fleet. There are situations where using a 0%CR ship would make sense and might even be a lot of fun (if you like desperate efforts and heroic last stands). Imagine a battered cruiser slugging behind at the rear of a escaping fleet, suddenly turning around and letting his guns bellow for the last time, sacrificing himself to allow his comrades to flee.

Or, less dramatically said, an order like "last stand" could force a not combat ready ship back into action, but at the cost of its inevitable permanent destruction (or maybe massive damage/constantly degrading hull would be enough with the repair costs high as they are).

As a side effect that would emphasize how severe of a problem low CR really is, your ship is literally falling apart.
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Andy H.K.

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #425 on: October 06, 2013, 08:24:11 AM »

I managed to chain-harry a certain fleet to an extend. It seems now the AI would actually engage you despite being outnumbered, if the next harry would bring the fleet into undeployable state.

I think we should learn from them.
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Silver Silence

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #426 on: October 06, 2013, 09:46:04 AM »

I thought non-combat ready ships were unable to do a god-damned thing? Shields offline, weapons offline, ship systems inactive, engines barely functional.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #427 on: October 06, 2013, 10:05:47 AM »

I thought non-combat ready ships were unable to do a god-damned thing? Shields offline, weapons offline, ship systems inactive, engines barely functional.

They are, hence my confusion.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #428 on: October 06, 2013, 11:04:38 AM »

Why would you want to risk your ship by deploying it in such a state anyway?

Sometimes it's a decision between risking a ship or risking the fleet. There are situations where using a 0%CR ship would make sense and might even be a lot of fun (if you like desperate efforts and heroic last stands). Imagine a battered cruiser slugging behind at the rear of a escaping fleet, suddenly turning around and letting his guns bellow for the last time, sacrificing himself to allow his comrades to flee.

Or, less dramatically said, an order like "last stand" could force a not combat ready ship back into action, but at the cost of its inevitable permanent destruction (or maybe massive damage/constantly degrading hull would be enough with the repair costs high as they are).

As a side effect that would emphasize how severe of a problem low CR really is, your ship is literally falling apart.


If you want a desperate last stand situation about 10% CR has got you covered. 0% CR means you're way past last stand. The fact that mothballed ships are 0CR should show well enough how severe of a problem low CR is - and if it isn't the first time you try to deploy a low CR ship certainly will.
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PCCL

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #429 on: October 06, 2013, 11:56:51 AM »

my point is, there shouldn't be a threshold where the ship becomes completely unusable. Just make it so undesirable in all but the direst of situations and let us deploy them.

As a side effect that would emphasize how severe of a problem low CR really is, your ship is literally falling apart.

Yes, so instead of telling the players that their ships are falling apart and can't come to battle, let the players deploy them and SHOW them how bad things are (draining hull, reduced speed, missiles not loaded, shields weakened/barely functional).
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Gothars

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #430 on: October 06, 2013, 12:12:09 PM »

Well, something's brewing in the dev kitchen with regards to this, so let's just wait and see...
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swicked

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #431 on: October 06, 2013, 12:42:39 PM »

I thought non-combat ready ships were unable to do a god-damned thing? Shields offline, weapons offline, ship systems inactive, engines barely functional.
Well, if it's a carrier, it's still able to replace fighters no matter how badly it is damaged.
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Debido

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #432 on: October 06, 2013, 02:49:22 PM »

Well, something's brewing in the dev kitchen with regards to this, so let's just wait and see...

That's good to hear. The initial CR model is not satisfying to all players, though we'd need a poll or ability to give quantifiable feedback to Alex. Several alternative models have been proposed and I think the project needs to include testing of the best alternatives to determine the best path forward to provide the best gaming experience for players.

Perhaps Alex can look at implementing online feedback forms to better capture, quantify and qualify the feedback to provide executive summaries and trends that are occurring. Reading through 30 pages of a forum thread that tends to wander from the topic is probably not the most effective utilization of time, nor does it provide the most pertinent information.
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Astyanax

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #433 on: October 06, 2013, 06:16:47 PM »

- What if the likelihood of certain low-CR malfunctions was tied somewhat to the captain's skill allocation?

If you put a lot of points into Combat, you would have a lower chance of weapon malfunctions due to low CR.  Lots of points into  Leadership might slightly enhance the speed of recovery from malfunctions.  If you put a lot into Technology, engine malfunctions due to low CR would be less prevalent.

- Maybe also tie in OP?  A weapon that has high OP has a greater chance of malfunctioning than a basic vulcan cannon.

- As for CR as a whole, I think the biggest issue is people don't have a grasp of supply upkeep... maybe have a 3-part bar signifying supply use under normal, regaining CR, and repairing + regaining CR situations?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:25:45 PM by Astyanax »
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Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #434 on: October 06, 2013, 06:27:56 PM »

In a way, Combat already reduces malfunctions by raising maximum CR you can start with (if you stay in your flagship) and reduce CR lost after combat.  A flagship with maximum Combat can fight more than a ship without any Combat.  It would be nice if those bonuses applied fleetwide; too much CR gets drained after one fight without flagship CR modifiers.

Quote
Maybe also tie in OP?  A weapon that has high OP has a greater chance of malfunctioning than a basic vulcan cannon.
Ewww, no!  If I spend more OP, a relatively scarce resource, to use better weapons, and spend AP/SP in Technology to get more OP, I should get what I pay for, not punished by cutting-edge weapons breaking.
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