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Author Topic: Combat Readyness isn't fun..  (Read 137444 times)

Gothars

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #450 on: October 14, 2013, 05:55:23 AM »

Hi there, welcome!

Combatreadyness adds bit too much microamage work that needs to be done after every Battle..

I feel like the game was better before where as long as you had supplies the ship keept running

Mh, what is this extra work you do after every battle? I think it's the same as before, as long as you have enough supplies your fleet keeps running.
Of course you also need enough crew and your fleet should not be too big, but that was the same before, too.

it makes early game realy tedious that you need to hang around abase

You can instantly regain all CR at friendly stations. Just click on "repair".
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Sproginator

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #451 on: October 14, 2013, 06:21:07 AM »

Agreed on all counts here
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Dr.Noid

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #452 on: October 14, 2013, 07:17:27 AM »

... and one can assume spaceships are more Advanced than Aircraft.. and combat readyness of a Aircraft doesnt og Down, unless the pilot fights over like 16 hours.. if a fight ever lasts that long.. and even then, the fuel is more likely to run out before a malifunction on the system or the pilot.
On the contrary, modern fighter jets require an extensive maintenance overhaul very regularly. Similar to how F1 racers go through up to 8 engines in a season, they swap engines ever 2 to 3 races. Pushing systems to the max like the crew has to do during combat means those systems require extensive maintenance afterwards.

Factor in the lore that space-tech is mostly forgotten, and you've got a situation like bicycle-repair-man that has to keep an F1 car running. :)
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Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #453 on: October 14, 2013, 07:40:28 AM »

Supplies should not cost so much.  Too expensive to buy, too expensive to fully repair a ship, yet too profitable if much more can be obtained then needed.  Supplies need to be cheaper.  Bigger ships eat too many supplies to recover CR.  Ships seem to eat more supplies than before, and freighters are almost required to pick up enough salvage to profit.  Problems with CR and supplies are linked.

Deploying high tech ships costs too much CR, unless the ship is the flagship with max Combat (for -30% CR cost).
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Sproginator

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #454 on: October 14, 2013, 09:42:49 AM »

Supplies should not cost so much.  Too expensive to buy, too expensive to fully repair a ship, yet too profitable if much more can be obtained then needed.  Supplies need to be cheaper.  Bigger ships eat too many supplies to recover CR.  Ships seem to eat more supplies than before, and freighters are almost required to pick up enough salvage to profit.  Problems with CR and supplies are linked.

Deploying high tech ships costs too much CR, unless the ship is the flagship with max Combat (for -30% CR cost).

I'm gonna half the supply usage per fleet, that should do it
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #455 on: October 14, 2013, 10:32:30 AM »

Quote
Deploying high tech ships costs too much CR, unless the ship is the flagship with max Combat (for -30% CR cost).

No they don't, if you reduce their CR usage, then what is the point of low tech? none whatsoever. because high tech is supposed to be better in every category, they need that penalty for being better.



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Alex

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #456 on: October 14, 2013, 10:35:31 AM »

Supplies should not cost so much.  Too expensive to buy, too expensive to fully repair a ship, yet too profitable if much more can be obtained then needed.  Supplies need to be cheaper.  Bigger ships eat too many supplies to recover CR.

I've seen this sentiment come up a few times (though it might have been you all those times, Megas - not quite sure :)), so I just want to explain the rationale. If CR loss is to have a high material cost (beyond just the opportunity cost of not being as ready for a little while), then whatever is consumed to regain CR must cost a lot. And since a large part of the idea of CR is to promote more thoughtful deployment and reward the player that fights riskier battles, it's necessary for CR loss to have a high material cost. Drastically lowering supply costs would largely amount to removing the mechanic.


I'm not saying it's perfect, btw (and, honestly, I wouldn't expect the first iteration of any mechanic to be). Actually working on a few fairly serious adjustments as we speak. That said, I do think it does what it's supposed to do - just has a few rough edges.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #457 on: October 14, 2013, 10:37:04 AM »

I love how high-tech got balanced with the new CR system. For a guy that piloted high tech and only high tech, seeing myself resorting to mid-line or even lowtech to fight just because they're more versatile is a weird but welcomed change. While fielding a Paragon or two still guarantees supreme firepower in an indestructable shell, actually getting them to the battlefield and cleaning up after them can cost more than they're worth in battle versus the lower maintenance of midline ships and quicker repair.
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Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #458 on: October 14, 2013, 11:14:25 AM »

Quote
No they don't, if you reduce their CR usage, then what is the point of low tech?
Kiting other ships with more and superior ballistics.  High-tech ships could take more CR than low-tech; I just think they eat too much.  Some other poster called high CR gobblers "hangar queens" or something.

Quote
because high tech is supposed to be better in every category, they need that penalty for being better.
They tend to have better shields and speed, and better one-shot weapons like blasters and plasma cannons.  Most have terrible range and must expose themselves to enemy fire to kill other ships.

Quote
I've seen this sentiment come up a few times (though it might have been you all those times, Megas - not quite sure), so I just want to explain the rationale. If CR loss is to have a high material cost (beyond just the opportunity cost of not being as ready for a little while), then whatever is consumed to regain CR must cost a lot. And since a large part of the idea of CR is to promote more thoughtful deployment and reward the player that fights riskier battles, it's necessary for CR loss to have a high material cost. Drastically lowering supply costs would largely amount to removing the mechanic.
Some problems:  If many supplies are needed to keep ships up and running, then the Atlas or several high-capacity cargo ships are required to collect all of the salvage from battle.  (Standing down may not always be an option if fleet fought too hard or lets surviving chunks of XP and loot get away.)  Given the current price of supplies, looting as much as possible is very lucrative, and makes the salvage option the no-brainer choice most of the time.  Also, if a player wants max Combat and Technology (and takes just enough Leadership to pilot a battleship without losing LR), he does not have much of a choice what to deploy, especially if player wants to pilot a single super ship, like Vindicator from Star Control 2.

This is one reason why I use frigate swarms (plus Atlas and Oxen to haul loot), with Lashers making up about half of my fighting force.  They are cheap, fast, and collectively powerful enough to kill the majority of fleets without (or very few) casualties, and they are hurt least by CR.  For the occasional system fleet battle, it is time to break out the capitals if I do not want casualties.
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Gothars

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #459 on: October 14, 2013, 11:31:03 AM »

If CR loss is to have a high material cost (beyond just the opportunity cost of not being as ready for a little while), then whatever is consumed to regain CR must cost a lot. And since a large part of the idea of CR is to promote more thoughtful deployment and reward the player that fights riskier battles, it's necessary for CR loss to have a high material cost. Drastically lowering supply costs would largely amount to removing the mechanic.

I have no problem with the costs, but I'd be happy if supplies would sell for much less.
Or, I suppose, just make them drop less. As soon as other methods of income are available that's probably planned anyway.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 02:30:11 PM by Gothars »
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Megas

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #460 on: October 14, 2013, 11:39:58 AM »

Cheaper supplies would slow down income, make full repairs (and boarding) a sensible option, and let the player buy supplies without crippling himself.
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Uomoz

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #461 on: October 14, 2013, 12:13:18 PM »

let the player buy supplies without crippling himself.

That's the whole point!
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BillyRueben

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #462 on: October 14, 2013, 02:28:26 PM »

I'd be happy if supplies would sell for much less.

That's my feeling as well. I have more money than I can spend in every game, with minimal effort to do so. It's at the point where I don't even care what gets dropped after combat, I just load up as many supplies as I can, sell them at a station, and repeat. I can get a fully outfitted Paragon in a quarter of the time it took in the previous version.
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miljan

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #463 on: October 14, 2013, 02:35:20 PM »

Would it not be better to spilt supplies in two different resources? One for repairing that you only use for that, and other the supplies that are used as now, but not for repairing.

Than i think it would be easier to balance how much you get what, and also it is easier for players to understand the mechanic a little better.

Also there must be a tool tip saying how much supplies are needed to repair the ship and also  get to full CR without the need to go to stations
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dmaiski

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #464 on: October 14, 2013, 02:45:51 PM »

i need a picture of my fleet... i think i curently have 2million credits and an excesive amount of supplies

suplies are cheap, if you are even a half decent pirate, you will usualy be bleeding supplies out your ears...



CR mechanic is great, but one sugestion... cr cost to deploy should scale inversly to ship size

ei.
frigate: ~40%cr to deploy
destroyer: ~30%cr to deploy
cruiser: ~20%cr to deploy
capital: ~10%cr to deploy

this would make large ships more viable and usefull to form the backbone of a fleet
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7204.0 in sugestions now
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