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Author Topic: [0.95a] Kadur Remnant 3.2.3 - life support 2021-03-27  (Read 695942 times)

Vayra

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2013, 02:49:30 AM »

J
There's no 'general purpose' frigate. Everything is either a scout, civilian/fleet support, or can only carry one damage type. This is fine as a concept, but painful for players who aren't grandmaster pilots like the rest of us. Need something analogous to a Lasher/Wolf that a played wanting an easier (as in piloting skill) faction game start can use.

Can't say I agree with that. A Hyena with a Heavy Railgun or Coilgun + Javelin in the back is really incredibly good at everything that ISN'T supply storage.
Frankly it's arguably easier to use than a Wolf or Lasher because all you have to do is DODGE, autofire will do the rest.. I will say that their total dps is a tad low when compared to the Lasher or Wolf but it doesn't really stop them being effective.... it wouldn't be any worse than a Hound.


With regards to the PD missiles.. You may want to look at the ammo capacity of the Hoplite given that it has HALF the total damage capacity of the Partisan...
I understand that the increased damage per missile has a fairly significant effect vs armor but in reality it ends up just being a terrible choice for a large slot.

Also the Medium versions of the Railgun/Coilgun are... less preferable in most cases for the same reason.
A Heavy Coilgun has 120,000 damage capacity ( Which is HUGE by the way ) but a Twinned Heavy Railgun only has 55,000.
Not only that but they're less flux->damage efficient, take up more OP and have the identical range.
Few if any ships are so desperate for DPS per slot that they wouldn't rather have say.. more hull mods or vents.

An Enforcer for example with 5 Heavy Railguns on it generates 750 flux/second for 750 kinetic dps at a cost of 45 OP
An Enforcer with 5 TWINNED Heavy Railguns generates 1365 flux/second for 1250 kinetic dps at a cost of 60 OP
Ontop of the aforementioned total damage penalty!
That's 15 more vents or one big hull mod like Unstable Injector and quite frankly the extra DPS per slot just isn't justified, especially for such long range weapons which encourage longer, safer, drawn out fights ( Where total damage is really important!)

Keep in mind this is all for the Enforcer which may be the most slot starved ship in the entire game.


Not entirely sure how I feel about the Capital ship supply consumption... Hard to say given the current state of capital ships, they're definitely the hardest of any capital ship I've ever seen (mods included) to use as a player just because of the logistics involved.


Operative phrase bolded there. Hounds are hard as hell to play if you're not much of a pilot. :P Funnily enough, my original design stub for the Hyena was "frigate that can catch and kill a Hound for 1 more fleet point and a bit more money" -- also hence the name.

...You know, I never actually thought about total damage capacity, despite building a faction of long-range weapons and fast ships. Threw together some major ammo changes for the next update because of this.

As for capital ship supply costs, they'll likely stay as they are -- Kadur ships are meant to be quite expensive, and the only one out of scale for vanilla is the Caliph and that's more of a supercapital anyway. In my mind it's appropriate for it to be stuck near its home station and resupply point unless it has a lot of dedicated logistics support.

Thank you, by the way. This is all really great feedback, and I always appreciate knowing when something is unbalanced. :)
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Taverius

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2013, 03:10:34 AM »

By the way, the engine for the Jackal is the wrong colour :)
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MShadowy

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2013, 07:31:10 AM »

edit: looking at my SHIInterface file it should only give you that bug if you changed the name of Anar or Impresario Shipyards... Mind, my approach to javascript is pretty much rolling my face across the keyboard and offering a virgin sacrifice to stackoverflow.com, so I might not be thinking of everything. If you did that then just let me know what you changed it/them to and I'll throw in a few more lines of code to make the next version of the Kadur compatible with the new SHI as well as the old -- if you didn't change either of the names, then I have no idea. :v

Yeah, I haven't changed the names to either.

As it stands the error seems rather mysterious, and I've no idea why exactly it is occurring.  So I just uncommented it, though I haven't quite had the chance to check out your systems just yet.
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Taverius

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2013, 08:11:47 AM »

Its a little weird that I can see the weapons on the Phalanx, but not on any other fighter. Hide them, so it doesn't look so strange?

Also: Whoa, a Dervish wing costs 60 supplies per battle to recover, and it takes 10 days. The only thing that takes more supplies capital ships ... Wasps, which have a bugged value that Alex forgot to divide by 6, are absurdly expensive and cost 54 per battle.

Also Also: Why is the Rukh classed as a Cruiser? Its a destroyer in essentially all its stats except that Hull Mods cost way more points than you'd think ... is it because of the 2 flight decks?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:06:37 PM by Taverius »
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Gotcha!

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2013, 02:41:23 PM »

I've been flying through your worlds and it's looking very good. The only nitpick I could find is Kadur's sun. Its surface shows a very low quality image; the sun is chopped up in small squares, if you know what I mean.

Very nice job. :)
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SpaceRiceBowl

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2013, 03:35:53 PM »

Is it just me, or is it that these ships are quite OP
because with the right setup, I can take on the Hegemony Defense Fleet all on my own with the capital ship in this mod.
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Borgoid

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2013, 07:32:15 PM »

You're far too vague.
The ship design itself doesn't suggest them being overpowered and I should probably point out that a VANILLA Conquest can take on an entire Hedgemony fleet.

Also if you're referring to the Caliph ( Which I assume you are, though if you were I'd never know about it because you decided to use as few words possible to convey the vaguest suggestion of a point! ) that monster uses 30 supplies/day and costs more to maintain than any other ship I've seen. Even Neutrino ships use less than that because of their deployment costs being lower.
You get what you pay for in my opinion.

If you want to talk about balance you might want to talk about weapons rather than ships.. and use more than 140 characters.
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Vayra

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2013, 09:36:23 PM »

By the way, the engine for the Jackal is the wrong colour :)

Haha, this is actually intentional. The Jackal (and the Dervish) are both of a way higher tech level than the rest of the Kadur fleet, thus their astronomical deployment costs and blue engines.

It is a little wonky looking, but I think it's a good visual signifier -- I might change it in the future anyway though. :v

Its a little weird that I can see the weapons on the Phalanx, but not on any other fighter. Hide them, so it doesn't look so strange?

Also: Whoa, a Dervish wing costs 60 supplies per battle to recover, and it takes 10 days. The only thing that takes more supplies capital ships ... Wasps, which have a bugged value that Alex forgot to divide by 6, are absurdly expensive and cost 54 per battle.

Also Also: Why is the Rukh classed as a Cruiser? Its a destroyer in essentially all its stats except that Hull Mods cost way more points than you'd think ... is it because of the 2 flight decks?

Pedantic, but the Phalanx is a corvette and not a fighter :P I do agree that the light railgun arrays look horrible on it though. I think I'll shuffle its weapons around a little for the next release and probably end up hiding them, yes.

Dervishes are supposed to cost a pile of supplies above and beyond the regular amount -- that's what you get for fast, survivable multirole phase fighters with decent armament, after all. I was also operating on the assumption that Alex's ridiculous fighter wing supply costs were intentional, though... so all the fighter wings should be cheaper to field in the next release too, no fear. :)

As for the Rukh, you nailed it. It's a fast dedicated light cruiser carrier. The vanilla game kind of set the standard for dedicated carrier flight decks at 1 for a destroyer and 3 for a capital (all the vanilla cruisers with flight decks are multipurpose ships rather than dedicated carriers, as far as I can tell) so it made sense for a dedicated carrier ship boasting 2 flight decks to be a cruiser-classed vessel. Think of it like a Kadur Falcon with fighter/corvette support infrastructure replacing the capability to mount heavy armament.

I've been flying through your worlds and it's looking very good. The only nitpick I could find is Kadur's sun. Its surface shows a very low quality image; the sun is chopped up in small squares, if you know what I mean.

Very nice job. :)

Thanks! The Kadur sun texture was just one of the base game's that I color-shifted in Paint.net, but I agree that it's pretty pixelated. I've replaced it with a higher-res image for the next release.

I really appreciate all this feedback by the way. You guys do a great job of keeping me on track.
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Taverius

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2013, 12:35:42 AM »

About the Jackal, you made the shield bubble so small any weapon mounted that protrudes from the hull protrudes from the shield also.

Which looks weird when when you get shot on the shield and the weapon doesn't get damaged because its inside, even though visually its 90% outside (eg, light railgun array)
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Vayra

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2013, 01:25:43 AM »

About the Jackal, you made the shield bubble so small any weapon mounted that protrudes from the hull protrudes from the shield also.

Which looks weird when when you get shot on the shield and the weapon doesn't get damaged because its inside, even though visually its 90% outside (eg, light railgun array)

Whoops, that's just a straight error on my part. Fixed for the next release. (which i'm working on now!)

Thanks again for catching all this stuff. :)

edit: actually, the jackal looks kind of ridiculous with a giant gun sticking out of the front anyway. I think I'll be changing that to a hidden mount, along with expanding the ship/shield radius~
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 01:28:03 AM by Vayra »
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Taverius

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2013, 03:48:05 AM »

Sure. By the way, is the shield on the Rukh intended to be blue?

Also, I see that so far the broken Ram-Tug has a deploy cost of 5. Keep in mind that is counted by the AI when deciding whether to run or fight, which means as it the 2 tugs needed to get a destroyer cargo or fuel ship to speed with the rest of the fleet would count as much as a Falchion in the AI's eyes.
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Vayra

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2013, 04:31:51 AM »

Sure. By the way, is the shield on the Rukh intended to be blue?

Also, I see that so far the broken Ram-Tug has a deploy cost of 5. Keep in mind that is counted by the AI when deciding whether to run or fight, which means as it the 2 tugs needed to get a destroyer cargo or fuel ship to speed with the rest of the fleet would count as much as a Falchion in the AI's eyes.

Yep! Targes, Rukhs, and Immortals all have midline shields. It helps visually differentiate them from the usual horribly inefficient Kadur shielding, as those ships can actually take a hit or two on the shields without immediately overloading.

And yeah, that's a good point regarding the Dolphin. I'm still kind of thinking of fleet points in terms of the way they used to work, I guess.
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Taverius

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2013, 10:49:02 AM »

My hauberks keep getting nuked. Instead of keeping range they move basically into melee range and then get pasted. They also never turn off the field so they can shield.

Haven't lost one yet, but I have suffered two near-total crew losses.

Is there anything that can be done so the AI isn't so terrible at them? With the Targe, that's 2/3 destroyers the AI can't use well D:

P.S. I'm noticing some dissonance in the names list here ... I'm looking at ships for sale here ... 'Face Of The Divine' ... 'Sermon' ok, Theocracy, and then 'Thug Lyfe' and 'Straight Outta Compton' wut wut :D

P.P.S. Front shields on the cargo haulers is just plain mean. All they'll ever use them for is for bravely running away while blocking missiles, teabagging the player much? :P

P.P.P.S. Just noticed the Golem takes 100 crew and the Falchion 120. Did you maybe switch them by error?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 01:21:20 PM by Taverius »
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Vayra

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2013, 05:59:29 PM »

My hauberks keep getting nuked. Instead of keeping range they move basically into melee range and then get pasted. They also never turn off the field so they can shield.

Haven't lost one yet, but I have suffered two near-total crew losses.

Is there anything that can be done so the AI isn't so terrible at them? With the Targe, that's 2/3 destroyers the AI can't use well D:

P.S. I'm noticing some dissonance in the names list here ... I'm looking at ships for sale here ... 'Face Of The Divine' ... 'Sermon' ok, Theocracy, and then 'Thug Lyfe' and 'Straight Outta Compton' wut wut :D

P.P.S. Front shields on the cargo haulers is just plain mean. All they'll ever use them for is for bravely running away while blocking missiles, teabagging the player much? :P

P.P.P.S. Just noticed the Golem takes 100 crew and the Falchion 120. Did you maybe switch them by error?

Loving the continued attention you're giving this. I can't count how many little things I've needed to fix because you caught them, and that's great. ;D

For the Hauberk, I'm not sure -- I'm really not very good with java, so the AI for the field right now is verbatim "if it's not on, turn it on" and nothing else, heh. I'll take a look at making it a little more intelligent, but I can't really promise anything.

The dissonance was an artefact of me putting all the names on one list when I removed the "other" faction I plan to eventually include when it's finished. Rest assured, there will be a use for Kadur ships named Lethal Weapon and Thug Lyfe in the future.

As for front shields on cargo ships, I don't think I'll be changing those. What you get for abandoning shield technology in favor of putting giant engines on the backs of ships, etc etc. Of course, if its bothering you on your ships, I think there's a hull mod for that...  ;)

The crew counts on the Falchion and Golem were definitely a bit off. Fixed.

I should have a release out tonight if I don't run into too too many inexplicable null pointer errors.

edit: Oh dear, I figured out why MShadowy was getting that mod integration failure crash. It happens if the game tries to load the Kadur Theocracy mod before another one. I'll see if I have a way to fix this.

edit edit: Fixed everything. I could release now, or I could keep pushing on and try to make a multi-role frigate suitable for use as a starting ship... ;D

edit edit edit: Version 1.1.1, including a new system, new faction (same ships though), Junk Pirates integration, balance tweaks, and some other stuff
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 09:20:10 PM by Vayra »
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Hopelessnoob

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Re: [0.6a] Kadur Theocracy v1.0.3
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2013, 09:17:42 PM »

Loving this mod and the other two that currently work with it. great amount of variety added to base campaign and surprisingly balanced.
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